13-11-2001 05:46									#1
	How I built my forbidden palace Increase Your PM Length

City far far away from me poor capital; 1 sheild, 15 or so wasted. In democracy. With courthouse. Connected with roads.

Until I switched to Communisim. Then, 8 shields wasted. WoWzErS! Then I could build the palace in a reasonable amount of time.

I mean, I was going to war in the vauge hopes of spawning a GL to rush build the damn thing.

Communisim is GREAT for corruption.

	13-11-2001 05:59									#2
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Someone mentioned in another post that they had corruption go *up* when they switched from Monarchy to Republic as well. The editor clearly shows Democracy should be better than Communism & Republic should be better than Monarchy. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

	13-11-2001 06:02									#3
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Now that you built [forbidden palace], it would be nice to know how it works if you switch back to democracy. Does it really reduce corruption like another palace?

	13-11-2001 06:30									#4
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Communism sets a general value for corruption and applies it to ALL cities, regardless of distance. Democracy has less corruption then Communism, but distance is still a factor.

The average corruption for the entire empire was likely less under Democracy, but im guessing your playing a huge map and the city you were building the palace in was very very far away making that particular city worse for corruption under Democracy then under the averaged Communism.

	13-11-2001 06:50									#5
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I'm having great results currently with my method of getting the forbidden palace built in a reasonable time.

Pick a city that will have pretty good production (even if it's wasted for now) with preferably a size 12 city (or one that can grow to size 12). Next, rush-build a temple, cathedral, aquaduct, and a marketplace (for the luxury bonus to happiness). Last, get the city above size 5, and make it have a WLTK day. This gives you a shield bonus, and makes rushing that courthouse a bit cheaper.

Then, start the wonder. I've been able to do this without needing a factory (that extra 50% shield bonus helps) and railroad (the food and shild bonus again, helps) in roughly 30-40 turns with a good city. This is roughly typical for some other wonders i've built, and really actually isn't that long overall.

Cited well, the Forbidden Palace has nearly doubled the effectiveness of my empire.

Now, if I could get leaders more reliably earlier on, i'd save 'em just to build the Palace...I guess I need more practice with Ancient war. :-)

Jbird

	13-11-2001 07:00									#6
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On related note:

Has anyone actually seen the AI build the Fodbidden palace? I have managed to build it in every game. I have seen the AI build wonders like crazy but ive never seen it even attempt to build it.

This brings out the question.. does teh IA even suffer coruuption teh same as human. It seem to crank out pretty productive cities even with large empires, despite never building it. Perhaps FB just has low priority (a bit skewed to give teh human a better chance to get it)

As far as building FB oh yes in rep or democracy.. a well placed FB has resulted in some quick money and productive cities (my income in my current game jumpted by +40 gold) and many citie scould actually build stuff without waiting for gramma moses to bite the big one..

Z

	13-11-2001 08:04									#7
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Communist is great for curruption? Gee, that's realistic...

	13-11-2001 22:30									#8
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LOL yeah I know.. Communism is the most honest form of goverment.. bahahahahahha yeah right.. (catatonic laughter follows).. as someone who has lived there, been there and got teh t-shirt.. WHAT A LOT OF TRIPE!!

Hmm. now if only the editor worked...

Z

	13-11-2001 22:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Zizka On related note: Has anyone actually seen the AI build the Fodbidden palace? I have managed to build it in every game. I have seen the AI build wonders like crazy but ive never seen it even attempt to build it. This brings out the question.. does teh IA even suffer coruuption teh same as human. It seem to crank out pretty productive cities even with large empires, despite never building it. Perhaps FB just has low priority (a bit skewed to give teh human a better chance to get it) As far as building FB oh yes in rep or democracy.. a well placed FB has resulted in some quick money and productive cities (my income in my current game jumpted by +40 gold) and many citie scould actually build stuff without waiting for gramma moses to bite the big one.. Z

I believe the Forbidden Palace is a small wonder and thus every Civ can build it. I think i'll go back to a saved game in the game i just won(diplomatic victory on regent) and investigate the enemy cities. I'm curious to see what they've built and how thier corruption is compared to mine. The French ended up taking all the English cities so it should have some bad corruption going on.

	14-11-2001 01:00									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Zizka LOL yeah I know.. Communism is the most honest form of goverment.. bahahahahahha yeah right.. (catatonic laughter follows).. as someone who has lived there, been there and got teh t-shirt.. WHAT A LOT OF TRIPE!! Hmm. now if only the editor worked... Z

Erm, well, though after we switched from "communism" to "democracy" the corruption became muuuuuch greater

	14-11-2001 01:12									#11
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Yeah corruption under Democracy is a little overboard. I could see maybe one or two (max) shields lost, but no more. Take Hawaii for example, just because it is half a world away from Washington, does not mean that it is over run with corruption!

	14-11-2001 01:42									#12
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Actually A STRONG CASE can be made for Democracy
where its corruption would be, like communism, evenly distributed
among all cities.

Under democracy, there is no reason NOT to believe corruption won't be anything but standarized. Think about it, the power is with the people, not with a ruling elite. The people live throughout your democracy, and thus, unlike monarchy or despotism, power is not concentrated. In a democracy, the people won't become more corrupt just because they are further away from the capital. People in a democracy have an inherent stake in the government, and thus, while there is corruption, I would bet on the fact that empircally, corruption in a democracy is fairly even, regardless of distance from capital.


Essentially, What I'm saying is, the original idea of having corruption increase with distance from capital is a sufficient model to emulate less sophistical forms of governments. goverments like Monarch, and Despotism where power is concentrated and it is true that with distance from power, people will have more freedom to disobey those in power and thus create corruption.

I would assume the reason why Firaxis decided to keep the distance formula in with Democracy is to avoid people from screaming bloody murder for making an "overpowered" government. As it stands, people complain about everything. I think Sid might as well have us learn C++ and make our own game to shut up the incessant whining.

And it really is a catch22. either way you go with this, people will find justification to complain.