19-11-2001 00:16									#31
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"Victor, you did just prove my point. By kicking me painfully or breaking my arm you would indeed use force, retaliate etc., thus screwing the weak pacifist "logic" or the lack of ."

-Yes, but my opposition to the war is based on the mounds upon mounds of civilian casualties, not the actual use of force. (And notice there is a big difference between preparing to break an arm than actually succeeding. I know how to do it, I don't think I could actually do it in practice) If Bin Laden had a large obvious camp somewhere away from civilians and basically only with military targets, I would have been among the first to suggest dropping FAE on them.

"Notice that your level of violence would be similar to mine, like the use of force in Afgahnistan is similar to the one of the 9.11., except that we try to keep colat-dam as low as possible"

-Right, except I have a clear target standing in front of me, and the means to damage only you, so that colat-dam is neglible, unless I knock you into some property that gets damaged, and we all know I'm not that good

	19-11-2001 00:17									#32
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney lo super, whats up dude (it's Cockney from newsmax)

LOL, i always knew Gore cant spell. It should read vww (village wide web)!
Do you still post a Max? I sure do miss their freedom of dirty speech!

	19-11-2001 00:50									#33
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quote: They ONLY protest against their real enemy, and this is our democratic, capitalist system and the NATO.

Ehh what?

Where the hell do you get the idea for general statements like that?

	19-11-2001 00:55									#34
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Yeah still posting there, still **** stiring and occasionaly making a serious point

I must be the longest serving liberal there by now

	19-11-2001 01:04									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis -Yes, but ...

You are opposed to war because of civilian casualties? Äh, what galaxy did you say you come from?
(And notice there is a big difference between preparing to not to inflict civilian casualties than actually succeeding. They know how to do it, but i don't think it is always possible. Nevertheless, there are things to do wich have to be done!) If Bin Laden would pay his cell phone bill he would know we had a beef with him and take the next Air Taleeban Camel to Hague or ground zero, if i would be a millionaire i would buy Apolyton and ban all of you, if if if! So far no pacifist was ever able to stop the mad macho machine (mmm) of brutal, powerhungry dictators and cruel, fundamentalist regimes, but gun barrells and bombs were. Like it or not, but thats reality.

quote: Right, except I have a clear target standing in front of me, and the means to damage only you, so that colat-dam is neglible, unless I knock you into some property that gets damaged, and we all know I'm not that good.

Wrong! If you try to punch me back, i will just duck and you will hit your fellow peacenik instead (actually the best colat-dam i can think of ).

quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Ehh what? Where the hell do you get the idea for general statements like that?.

Internet, news and personal experiences. The far left, far right and (in the cases of Israel, Iraq and Afgahnistan) extreme islamists go hand in hand, are using the same hatred propaganda and do show openly what their real common enemy is: Capitalism, democracy, the jews and NATO. You can VERY easily find out on your own, the web is full of their sites. Btw, i did not claim all peaceniks belong to those radical groups and support their goals, but they still fight on their side.


LOL Cockney, you must be viewed as a conservative on his board, eh!?

	19-11-2001 01:12									#36
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"You are opposed to war because of civilian casualties? Äh, what galaxy did you say you come from?"

-What's that supposed to mean? It's a perfectly good and practical reason to be opposed to war. It tends to mean you're opposed to all wars, but that's not unlike most of the peaceniks. The difference here, is that if two countries decided to fight over some frozen scrap of land that had oil under it but no people on top, I probably wouldn't be opposed on moral grounds.

"So far no pacifist was able to stop the mad macho machine (mmm) of brutal, powerhungry dictators and cruel, fundamentalist regimes, but gun barrells and bombs were."

-Yes, but at what price?

"Like it or not, but thats reality."

-What's that got to do with it?

"Wrong! If you try to punch me back, i will just duck and you will hit your fellow peacenik instead (actually the best colat-dam i can think of )."

-But I won't punch at you from close enough so that my fist will go over you. I wouldn't be able to kick you from that close in, and ideally I'd kick not punch, because I can't do jack **** with my fists.

	19-11-2001 01:57									#37
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Common Victor, what kind of "shitshat"-phrases are you throwing at me? "Perfectly good to be against war, frozen oil without people and at what price":, do you really think this is of any importance for your argument other than to prove the lack of? Your values dont hold off nobody! If you dont care to become a hostage or a slave of those who kill a few thousand or million, if you dont give a d*mn about the Hitler`s, Mao`s and Stalin´s, the Milosevic`s, Hussein`s and Bin Laden`s playing hockey with heads of their slaughtered, just because it is not nearby you, great! More power to your dreamworld! I do care, i`ve got friends who suffered from dictators and wars. While they were fighting for their very life, our diplomats were talking and talking and talking. F*ck the pacifists, they are as bad as the psychopaths whom they allow to kill and kill and kill while you can open your mouths in freedom and throw filth at those who suffer with your high moral good human blathering! This, is not funny!


Ps: Nothing personal.

Last edited by Superpopanz on 19-11-2001 at 02:11

	19-11-2001 02:01									#38
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Superpopanz: i guess it was a missunderstanding from my side, I read your post as 'the people of [a number of countries] are f*cked up while it really was more like 'there's some f*ucked up people in...'...

	19-11-2001 02:17									#39
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Quite a lot, if you ask me, are FUBAR! Children who saw their parents getting slaughtered, women and girls who got raped and hundreds of thousands who lost their homes.

	19-11-2001 02:43									#40
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"If you dont care to become a hostage or a slave of those who kill a few thousand or million, if you dont give a d*mn about the Hitler`s, Mao`s and Stalin´s, the Milosevic`s, Hussein`s and Bin Laden`s playing hockey with heads of their slaughtered, just because it is not nearby you, great!"

-To compare Bin Laden to the others is about as faulty an argument as any. I don't oppose defending oneself, but to fight destroy Afghanistan because Bin Laden is there... no. The German people became Hitler's accomplices by voting him in and continuing to support him. The Afghan people have no choice about Bin Laden, and probably very few of them even know where he is.

"I do care, i`ve got friends who suffered from dictators and wars.'

-Yeah, I spent part of my life under a communist dictator in his megalomaniacal phase. Doesn't make it right to kill people.

"Children who saw their parents getting slaughtered, women and girls who got raped and hundreds of thousands who lost their homes."

-Sounds just like the NA taking a big formerly Taliban-held town.

	19-11-2001 03:00									#41
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Don't argue with victor, because everyone who argues against him is always wrong.

	19-11-2001 03:03									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis -Sounds just like the NA taking a big formerly Taliban-held town.

No that was under the Taliban. How come the NA allowed women to be in government?

Look at the facts fool, approximately 50% of school teachers in Afghanistan when the NA was ruling were women. That was on CNN.

	19-11-2001 03:06									#43
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we can bomb afghanistan back into the stone age, except that it's already there.

we can bomb it until every single building is levelled, we can bomb it until no taliban structure or camp remains.

we can invade it with our troops, wipe the country clean of the hated muslim extremists.

we'll lose people, sure, but it's for a worthy cause.

five years of peace, at most, against terorrism.

	19-11-2001 03:15									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed we can bomb afghanistan back into the stone age, except that it's already there.

Or we could just do what we're doing now and overthrow the government that attacked us. Of course we'd have to try to form a stable enough government to keep it from happening again but I'd prefer us not to allow our aims in Afghanistan to distract from our aims outside of Afghanistan.

No one particularly cares about the plight of the Afghan people anyway.

	19-11-2001 03:18									#45
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we could.

but it still won't stop the hatin' on the amis, you know.

	19-11-2001 03:21									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed we could. but it still won't stop the hatin' on the amis, you know.

You're pretty fast. I think my edit might answer some of your questions.

	19-11-2001 03:23									#47
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"Or we could just do what we're doing now and overthrow the government that attacked us."

-You do realize the difference between Bin Laden and the Taliban, right? I mean, bin Laden could just find himself another hideout.

"Of course we'd have to try to form a stable enough government to keep it from happening again but I'd prefer us not to allow our aims in Afghanistan to distract from our aims outside of Afghanistan."

Stable govt. in Afghanistan, that's a good one.

	19-11-2001 03:25									#48
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well, not outside of the afghans, really.

nothing will change the fact that whoever's the most powerful country in the world, there will be some faction that hates it.

we just happen to be the most powerful now.

fifty years from now, if it's china, more people will hate it. one hundred years from now, if it's australia or canada, people will hate it.

bombing and killing terrorists, while perhaps justifiable, won't exactly solve the problem.

the problem being that humans just like to hate.

	19-11-2001 03:28									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis -You do realize the difference between Bin Laden and the Taliban, right? I mean, bin Laden could just find himself another hideout.

That's already been covered by me before. If you really want me to, I'll go over it again.

quote: Stable govt. in Afghanistan, that's a good one.

Why not? They've had periods of relative calm before.

	19-11-2001 03:28									#50
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Qcubed: It's human nature, can't change it . BOMB AWAY

	19-11-2001 03:33									#51
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Surrender all national sovereignty to the UN, that's the only real solution

	19-11-2001 03:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis Surrender all national sovereignty to the UN, that's the only real solution

And you said that I told a good joke.

	19-11-2001 03:51									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis 1.-To compare Bin Laden to the others is about as faulty an argument as any. I don't oppose defending oneself, but to fight destroy Afghanistan because Bin Laden is there... no. The German people became Hitler's accomplices by voting him in and continuing to support him. The Afghan people have no choice about Bin Laden, and probably very few of them even know where he is. 2.-Yeah, I spent part of my life under a communist dictator in his megalomaniacal phase. Doesn't make it right to kill people. 3.-Sounds just like the NA taking a big formerly Taliban-held town.

1. Why? A terrorist leader, willing to sacrify thousands of innocent for his sick version of life, why is he not comparable to the other, bigger scumbags? All of them started little btw. We fight to destroy Afgahnistan? You must be pretty brainwashed to claim such utter nonsense! Afgahnistan is already destroyed, and the people did suffer heavily under the Taleeban. I dont think you have any idea what you`re talking about! The Afgahn people did care sh*t about Bin Laden, because they were busy surviving since many years. The Taleeban regime did nothing to stop the misery, infact they worsened the situation by enforcing their idiotic rules, hindering international relief efforts, harbouring terrorist organisations and banning women from daily life. Do you have any idea how a woman can feed her fatherless children if she is not allowed to work?
Do you have any idea about the refugee camps?
Hitler, btw, became big because the pacifists let him! Remember Chamberlain!
2. So did i! I even spent 13 months of it in prison. Makes it very right to kill if you ask me!
3. Äh yes, where did you say you get your news from? Radio Peking, the daily Marxist?

Edit: Every country, be it Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lybia or whatever, must learn that harbouring terrorist organisation will result in the elimination of its government!

	19-11-2001 04:06									#54
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that's precisely why there's no overriding reason to bomb, the fact that it's human nature.

granted, that's also a reason for bombing, but what's the use? what's the point?

in five years we'll probably lose two or three embassies.

bombing them now will not stop that later.

	19-11-2001 04:30									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo No that was under the Taliban. How come the NA allowed women to be in government? Look at the facts fool, approximately 50% of school teachers in Afghanistan when the NA was ruling were women. That was on CNN.

And this cleanses them of their atrocities, why?

	19-11-2001 05:47									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld And this cleanses them of their atrocities, why?

And the you arguing for the dumbass taliban makes me wrong. Yes, I am always wrong. You idiot, you think your pacifist **** gets this far in the world besides promoting terrorism itself?

	19-11-2001 05:55									#57
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Oh, is that why?

Ok, then.

	19-11-2001 07:04									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Oh yes. Lonestar? You do realise that you're doing the cause of the Taliban more good than an entire legion of peaceniks, don't you? Clever boy. The US army needs all the morons it can get as cannon fodder.

What? Being in ROTC is furthering the Taliban cause? Jesus! If only I had known that finding a way to pay for college would give them strength!

Clearly, I need to be as clever as a duymbsh1t who puts "we are all HIV +". That is somehow better than me making a thread in response to Infats peace march thread.

For the record, while I find peace protesters (in this war, anyway) revolting, I wouldn't go around hitting people.

And I certainly let this thread die a long time ago, but some people with wwaaaayyyyyy to much time on their hands on a Saturday afternoon decided to dig back and find it.

I'm sorry if I offend you, Bugs ****ing Bunny for daring to find a way to pay for college. I'm sorry if I offend you for daring to feel pride with the uniform I'm wearing.

I'll let you return to your perfect Yuppie Middle-class whiteboy world where everyone who wears a military uniform and feels pride in it, and those who fight in it, is beneath your contempt.

Fvck you and the horse you rode in on. You could at least make an effort to pull your head out of your arse before you post next time.

	19-11-2001 07:29									#59
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quote: Do not ignore them, those who are not blind and stupid, are radicals who use the freedom to fight it!

I take it that you and your friends don shirts that are brown (or black or blue) when y'all beat up people with whom you disagree with.

	19-11-2001 07:56									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld And this cleanses them of their atrocities, why?

NA is better than the Taliban. Anyone adovacting for the worse party is an idiot.


And Q Qubed, we got the 9-11 not because we bombed them, but because we didn't do anything substantial after the first WTC bombing, Kenia Embassy bombing, and the Cole bombing. If you think you can APPEASE these bastards, you are just like those morons who thought Hitler could be APPEASED.