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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wraith
It's not weird, it's very efficent. |
It IS weird. YOU list me another graphics card that uses the same technology. Oops, you can't. It's weird.
I never said it was bad, I know it's a good thing.
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the X-Box, with it's 64 Megs (unless they're doing a 4x32bit with 16 megs on each, which doesn't seem likely given the photos showing number of RAM chips), will not operate as efficently. It also has to deal with sending all the other traffic over that same bus (DVD to HD, etc), so it simply will not have the same graphics bandwidth as the Ti200. |
They are doing 4x32bit. Read the Anandtech article.
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So you were able to find two favorable Althon quotes. Congratulations. The AXP does win some benchmarks so readily that even Tom can't ignore it without looking a fool. And that still doesn't touched the biased benchmark suite. |
Er...Wraith, it's WIDELY accepted that Toms is AMD biased. EVERYONE knows that. You can't even begin to argue otherwise. He makes large, sweeping statements (Xbox is a wimpy PC, etc) with no foundations in reality, just pure rhetoric and exaggerations. But that's how he gets his precious pageviews. 
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This is exactly the kind of argument that I despise to get, and exactly the kind of argument you make all the damn time. You know good and well that the drive itself is 10 gigs, whether or not the X-Box OS is willing to recognize it. This is an arbitrary limitation of the software, and has nothing to do with the hardware.
Look, you were either wrong (in which case you should just accept it and move on) or you're trying to cover your ass because you were trying to embarras UR regardless of the facts and were hoping no-one would know better (in which case you've been called on it and should stop doing it). |
You should know that I used to respect you in debates.
It doesn't matter if the drive is 10 gigs or not, because it's REALLY 8 gigs. The other 2 gigs do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's like saying your computer has 768MB of RAM when running Windows 95. Windows 95 doesn't do anything above 512MB, so it may as well not be there.
You're trying to make yourself look absolutely correct, when you're not. It's an 8 gig hard drive. It may have a capacity for 10, but it's 8. Done deal. No more on the matter.
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Wiglaf, if you're going to argue with Glonsher, you'll have to get used to it. This is his SOP. Every time he realizes he's loosing an argument he starts context-dropping and twisting everyone's comments. It's incredibly frustrating, and if he acts like this in person I'm surprised he hasn't had all his teeth knocked out yet. |
You think I'M losing?
I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!
Christ you guys piss me off some times.
I try my best to respond to every single ****ing comment (look how many replies I've made). It is YOU that selectively chooses comments to reply to, then when I reply to them you go on a rant about how I'm context switching.
Shame on you.
I honestly used to respect you, you seemed to have known what you're talking about.
And now I can see you're just as bad as UR, making blind comments and just arguing with me because you don't like me or what I like. Fine, whatever.
Why don't you just go call me a commie too and be done with it? At least then there'd be some comedic value to your spam.
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:16
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If you think those graphics overtake what the "clunky MS console" has to offer, you just are so completely and utterly stupid I wouldn't know where to begin. |
troll.
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Hey genius, that depends on how many posts I have set to be displayed per page. I've got 40, what's your setting? |
troll.
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You are proving nothing but your own ignorance. |
troll. in fact, you've trolled dozens of times in this thread. far more than I have. so, before we go on, just understand that simple fact.
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Halo doesn't use all of the Xbox's power. In fact, I've heard it only uses one of the vertex pipelines on the Xbox. Presumably because it's also coming out for the PC in a short amount of time. |
I haven't seen much of an increase of graphical show on any recent console from 1st gen to 2nd gen: N64, Dreamcast, and PS2. I highly doubt Halo XBox is graphically mediocre because of its release date: granted, the power of the console will be tweaked, but it won't be anything overly massive. Also, I'd like a link for your tech babble.
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I have RTCW, the graphics are pretty good. But damn man, it's nothing new. It's a modified Quake III engine. |
And that still beats out Halo in side-by-sides.
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Honestly, Wiglaf, you have no clue what you're saying. The Xbox GPU completely and utterly stomps that of your $90 GeForce 2. You are proving nothing but your own ignorance. |
I don't have a Geforce 2, I don't even have a post-2000 PC in my house. Still, as Wolfenstein runs perfect on a 1.2 GHz P4 with a Pro (according to www.ignpc.com, friends, and gamespot), my point still stands.
Actually, your three lines of assness right there are unequaled in this thread when it comes to trolling. Don't go there, glonky.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
troll. in fact, you've trolled dozens of times in this thread. far more than I have. so, before we go on, just understand that simple fact. |
It's in reply to your trolls, Wiglaf.
And all of my statements about you are completely correct. 
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I haven't seen much of an increase of graphical show on any recent console from 1st gen to 2nd gen: N64, Dreamcast, and PS2. |
Blah, what the hell is this?
I have NO idea what you're trying to say. Technical development isn't going up as fast as it used to? Are you calling N64 first gen? Errr..?
N64 and PS2 are NOT in the same generation, if that's what you're trying to say, btw. 
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I highly doubt Halo XBox is graphically mediocre because of its release date: granted, the power of the console will be tweaked, but it won't be anything overly massive. Also, I'd like a link for your tech babble. |
It's graphically mediocre because it's intended to be ported to the PC. In fact, it was originally intended for the PC/Mac. In order to take advantage of the second vertex pipeline you have to change some fundamental parts of the renderer. It's kinda like having dual processors: Having a second CPU in your box doesn't boost performance in every application. They need to be designed to support it.
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And that still beats out Halo in side-by-sides. |
That's purely opinion.
The poly count on the players is MUCH lower in RTCW. Why don't you compare DOA3 players to RTCW's players?
The Xbox GPU is simply way more powerful than any GPU on the PC right now. Want links for it? I don't see why you'd even need one. But here one is anyway: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=3
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I don't have a Geforce 2, I don't even have a post-2000 PC in my house. Still, as Wolfenstein runs perfect on a 1.2 GHz PIII with a Pro (according to www.ignpc.com, friends, and gamespot), my point still stands. |
The 1.2GHz P3 itself costs more than the entire Xbox. 
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Actually, your three lines of assness right there are unequaled in this thread when it comes to trolling. Don't go there. |
I'm being an ass because you are seriously in way too deep here. You have NO idea what you're talking about and you keep parading it around saying "XBOX SUCKS XBOX SUCKS SEE LOOK AT THIS". It's REALLY pissing me off, I can't stand people like that.
If you don't want to buy an Xbox, fine. Go away, **** off, I don't care how you want to phrase it.
I have one, and I love it. I also have a high end PC with a GeForce 3, and I love that too.
What it comes down to is each platform is better for different things. I enjoy sitting down with friends and playing NHL 2002 on the bigscreen, co-op Halo, DOA3 tourneys, etc. You can't do that on the PC.
I also enjoy games like Civ3 and RTCW. Those games play best on the PC. That's why I have both.
Xbox is undoubtedly the most powerful console out there, comparing it to the PC is useless and irrelevant. If the Xbox is so weak in comparison, why would anyone even consider getting a Gamecube or PS2, Wiglaf? Your logic is flawed, and it's frustrating to debate against.
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Wraith
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Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:16
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--"YOU list me another graphics card that uses the same technology."
Don't confuse innovative with weird.
--"Er...Wraith, it's WIDELY accepted that Toms is AMD biased"
Actually, it's widely accepted that he was AMD biased. It's not like his opinions have remained constant throughout all time.
--"You should know that I used to respect you in debates."
So? I don't recall ever having respecting you in debates, and if I don't respect you your opion really doesn't mean anything to me.
--"It doesn't matter if the drive is 10 gigs or not, because it's REALLY 8 gigs. The other 2 gigs do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING."
Doing absolutely nothing and not being there are different things altogether. People are reverse engineering the X-Box's file system already, sooner or later someone will have a hack that can take advantage of the extra space (or allow you to add your own drive).
You were insulting Tom for getting his numbers wrong, when in fact he had them correct. Some of the HDs are 10 Gig HDs. The X-Box just doesn't use more than 8 Gigs.
--"I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!"
Context-dropping, certainly. I never said anything about you dropping comments, those kind of things happen in these long debates. What I said was twisting everyone's comments, which you really didn't need to prove quite so flamboyantly.
--"And now I can see you're just as bad as UR, making blind comments"
Blind comments? The Segate HD is a 10 Gig hd. If you take it out of the X-Box and stick it in your PC and reformat it, it'll show 10 gigs. This is a fact that you have admitted, so instead you switched to defining the size as what the X-Box can use instead of what's really there. That'd be like marking off a 40x20 partition in a 1,000 sq ft house and saying your house is only 800 sq ft.
--"Why don't you just go call me a commie too and be done with it?"
Because you've never been consitent or thoughtful enough to have an ideology. You support the Wintel party line, but unless you want me to start calling you a Bunny Man that really doesn't mean anything politically.
--"Halo doesn't use all of the Xbox's power. In fact, I've heard it only uses one of the vertex pipelines on the Xbox. Presumably because it's also coming out for the PC in a short amount of time."
If this is true, there's something interesting to consider. How many X-Box games are going to be ported to the PC? Most of them, right? Which means that if all the developers are following this logic, very few titles will actually be using the full power of the X-Box.
Wraith
Don't hate yourself in the morning - sleep till noon
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wraith
Don't confuse innovative with weird. |
Wraith, again you're going out of your way to "be right".
I said it was weird, it is weird. No other video card does it, that classifies it as weird or odd (as well as innovative).
quote:
Doing absolutely nothing and not being there are different things altogether. People are reverse engineering the X-Box's file system already, sooner or later someone will have a hack that can take advantage of the extra space (or allow you to add your own drive).
You were insulting Tom for getting his numbers wrong, when in fact he had them correct. Some of the HDs are 10 Gig HDs. The X-Box just doesn't use more than 8 Gigs. |
Argh. He said "The xbox has 10 gigs". I'm saying "The xbox has 8 gigs". Which is correct?
In SOME respects, he is correct. SOME drives are 10 gigs.
HOWEVER, the Xbox never reads more than 8. And the other drives are all 8 to begin with.
Who is more correct here? Me for saying the Xbox has an 8 gig hard drive (what it uses) or Tom for saying that the Xboxes have a 10 gig HD? Both are correct, one moreso than the other. Figure it out. He should have clarified it in his article.
quote:
Context-dropping, certainly. I never said anything about you dropping comments, those kind of things happen in these long debates. What I said was twisting everyone's comments, which you really didn't need to prove quite so flamboyantly. |
Hey, I don't twist people's comments. I post an exact duplicate of what they say and respond to how it's interpreted. If you thought I was intentionally twisting it, you'd be wrong. You just need to perhaps make yourself more clear when expressing things you know I'll object with.
quote:
If this is true, there's something interesting to consider. How many X-Box games are going to be ported to the PC? Most of them, right? Which means that if all the developers are following this logic, very few titles will actually be using the full power of the X-Box. |
You think most Xbox games will be ported to the PC? 
A good number of them will be. But so are a good number of PS2 games.
And Halo started development before the Xbox even was known to exist. Future games will be designed from the start to run on Xbox and PC (if they plan to go both routes), so I'd expect them to add in the 2nd pipeline support (much like Carmack adds SMP support into Quake incase someone two processors).
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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quote:
Xbox Rings Up Big Sales for Retailers as Holiday Shopping Season Opens
REDMOND, Wash. - Nov. 21, 2001 - Cash registers are ringing in response to unprecedented demand for the much-anticipated Xbox™ video game system from Microsoft Corp. Thousands of gamers lined up at stores across the country beginning Thursday, Nov. 15, to be among the first to purchase Xbox, resulting in a near sellout in its first day at retail. Early reports also show a huge demand for games and accessories, with most customers leaving stores not only with an Xbox, but with more than three games and accessories. Top-selling games include "Halo™," "Project Gotham Racing™," "NFL™ Fever 2002" and "Oddworld: Munch’s Oddysee™" from Microsoft® Game Studios; "Madden™ NFL 2002" from Electronic Arts; and Tecmo’s "Dead or Alive 3™," an Xbox exclusive.
"The Xbox launch was the best launch I have ever been a part of, and that goes all the way back to launches like that of Nintendo Entertainment System, Super NES, 3DO and Atari," said Dan DeMatteo, president of Gamestop Inc. "It was the first time in recent memory we didn’t have to air-ship product to meet the launch date. The momentum continues even after launch. We continue to sell everything we can get."
The launch smashed many retailers’ single-day sales records. According to Peter Roithmayr, vice president of merchandising at Electronics Boutique, "It (the Xbox launch) was incredible. We had the single largest sales day in Electronics Boutique history Nov. 15. This was a record we thought would take forever to be broken. We have seen a very strong software and accessory attach beyond the first day of sales. Product continues to ship from Microsoft on a very timely basis, and consumers are obviously pleased." Microsoft’s replenishment strategy is ensuring that more than 100,000 consoles are shipped to stores every week through the holidays. Microsoft is on track to greatly exceed this number in advance of the Thanksgiving weekend, the busiest shopping time of the year. By the end of the holiday season, Microsoft will have shipped between 1 million and 1.5 million Xbox units to North America.
Toys R Us Inc. Vice President World Manager Wayne Yodzio echoed the enthusiasm of many retailers. "Launch has been excellent. We are still selling software and accessories, even after we continue to sell every console unit we get. Consumers are coming back and buying significant quantities of ’Dead or Alive 3,’ ’NFL Fever 2002’ and ’Halo.’"
Word-of-mouth recommendations and stellar reviews are driving gamers to the great games available on Xbox, including "Halo," which earned the highest accolades from Electronic Gaming Monthly, securing a rating of 10 from all reviewers.
Nineteen Xbox titles are currently available for sale, with more than 30 titles expected to be on sale by the end of the holidays, including "Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding™," "Azurik: Rise of Perathia™" and "Nightcaster™" from Microsoft Game Studios; "WWF® Raw" from THQ Inc.; and "Star Wars® Starfighter™ Special Edition" and "Star Wars® Obi-Wan™" from LucasArts Entertainment Company. |
Still think it was such a horrible launch, Wiglaf?
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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from ConsoleDomain.co.uk (http://www.consoledomain.co.uk/articles/1221.html)
Seriously give it some thought and temporarily toss aside those pre-conceived notions of yours.
quote:
Living with Xbox
Writer : Mike Smith
So a week on from launch, what are our feelings on Microsoft's new console? What's it like to spend seven days with Bill Gates' offspring in your front room? We've stroked it, showed it to our mates, cooed over it and even checked out if the console's controller's quick release system really works -- it does and we've not managed to pull it off the desk and on to the floor -- yet! So with our vast experience as Xbox owners in mind we've decided to lay some myths to rest and bring some to the fore in our light-hearted look at Mr Gate's new born gift to the gaming world.
1. The Xbox is not a PC!
"It's a PC in a box!" Well actually, no it doesn't appear to be at all. No crashes. No bugs. No viruses. So far, that is. About the only thing that made us feel like we were playing games on a PC was the "Quit to Xbox Dashboard" option on the main menu of Oddworld. The controller, interface and setup procedure is all pure console.
2. The controller is much bigger than it looks.
"Surely the controller is far too big?" Somewhat surprisingly, the controller is working out just fine. Though our impressions were, like most people, that it looked too large to be comfortable, it's actually very comfortable to hold for extended Halo sessions. The force feedback is especially good - it's stronger and more detailed than the PlayStation2 controller is. There are sections in Oddworld where you're controlling a crane and dropping bombs on enemies, where you can feel the full range of effect, from a light, gentle hum through to a hand-shaking rumble - fantastically detailed!
The developers of the initial batch of launch games should also be congratulated for using the force-feedback facility carefully - in most of the games, the effect is used to emphasise gameplay rather than just being thrown in for the hell of it. Halo is a particularly good example; the controller subtly supports the heavy weapons fire and explosions perfectly.
3. Xbox makes you popular.
It's true. Once word gets out that you've got your mitts on one of these bundles of gaming goodness, you'll be kept busy with visitors, both wanted and unwanted. Reminds me of the time I won the lottery.
...And everyone wants to drive the jeep in Halo.
4. All consoles should come with hard drives.
No more memory cards. Unless, that is, you want to take a save to a friend's house or something. This offsets the lack of DVD playing functionality - yes, if you want it, you need to buy a separate remote, but there's no real need to spend extra cash on a memory card. Swings and roundabouts.
It's also a lot faster than most memory cards. And it has other advantages - although Halo appears to have long loading times, in fact it's copying its levels to the hard disk. Once they're there, they can be pulled off almost instantaneously, so the mid-mission loading times are barely perceptible. The data stays there after you turn the console off, too, so you can pick up the level again later on with minimal loading.
And, finally, being able to rip your music CDs straight to the hard drive is great. No more complaining about games with ropy music; now you can choose your own. And as far as space goes, our Xbox is still reporting over 50,000 blocks free -- exactly the same as when it was new -- despite some fairly heavy duty gaming and music ripping.
5. Halo is the Best Game Ever
Well, almost. Check out our full review for our unadulterated opinion. It's far and away the best of the launch games, and one of the best FPSs to be released in years.
As it ships, it allows four Xboxes to be networked, with standard, widely available (and cheap) Ethernet components. With four players on each, this totals sixteen-player multiplayer goodness. The price tag, though, is hefty - four Xboxes, 12 extra controllers, a hub and some cables, and four HDTVs so the game is playable at quarter-screen size, totaling somewhere in the region of $10,000. Hey, it could happen! Maybe an enterprising Net cafe will take the plunge... oh go on, you know it makes sense, guys!
But there is an alternative. Some enterprising souls have figured out a way to fool two Xboxes, in different locations, into thinking they are on the same LAN. All you need is two networks, both with cable or DSL net connections, and with at least one PC on each network as well as the Xboxes. Running some software on the PCs and supplying each other's Internet addresses creates a "tunnel" through the Internet, and your Xboxes will think they are on the same local network. Voila, instant online Halo play.
It's not quite as easy as it sounds, though First, doing this will expose your network to whoever you're playing Halo against, so you'll need to trust them not to mess up your PCs. Second, this software is not easy to set up - but watch this space. One particularly community-minded gamer is working on a boot floppy, which will contain an installation of Linux together with all the software you need, on one 3.5" disk. Hopefully he'll be done soon - we'll let you know.
So our first week with our new best friend is over and we're still as in love with it as we were when we pulled it from its big green box. And there's plenty more to come by the looks of it with some of the year's most eagerly awaited games queuing up for the playing. Check out our rapidly expanding Xbox reviews section for all the latest on the console's software. |
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Wraith
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Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:16
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--"No other video card does it, that classifies it as weird or odd"
Unusual, certainly, but weird has connotations that don't fit.
--"SOME drives are 10 gigs."
Thank you for finally admitting it.
--"I post an exact duplicate of what they say and respond to how it's interpreted."
Oh? Let's take a look at this.
Here's what I said:
quote:
Every time he realizes he's loosing an argument he starts context-dropping and twisting everyone's comments. |
Here's how you replied:
quote:
I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!
Christ you guys piss me off some times.
I try my best to respond to every single ****ing comment (look how many replies I've made). It is YOU that selectively chooses comments to reply to, then when I reply to them you go on a rant about how I'm context switching. |
You either do not understand what context-dropping is, or you are purposely twisting my comments. Now, you may well not be aware of what you're doing, but you do mention "interpreted" above, so it seems like you are. You are certainly enough of a fanatic on these issues to edit in your head what other people have actually typed when you read it, so as to make their arguments more suitable to you.
Nowhere in my post did I mention a thing about "dropping everyone's comments" or "selectively chooses comments to reply to" or anything even remotely similar.
--"You think most Xbox games will be ported to the PC?"
Probably. It makes economic sense. The PC games market plus the console games market is much larger than the console game market alone. Any developer that already has PC game developement experience is very likely to port their games just so they can reach both markets. It's quite a bit of possible extra money, even taking the overlap into account.
Wraith
If you take a frown and turn it upside down, the person you are holding by the ankles will soon pass out.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wraith
You either do not understand what context-dropping is, or you are purposely twisting my comments. Now, you may well not be aware of what you're doing, but you do mention "interpreted" above, so it seems like you are. You are certainly enough of a fanatic on these issues to edit in your head what other people have actually typed when you read it, so as to make their arguments more suitable to you.
Nowhere in my post did I mention a thing about "dropping everyone's comments" or "selectively chooses comments to reply to" or anything even remotely similar. |
Context-dropping implies I'm not providing exact quotes of people I'm responding to (dropping it out of context). That's not the case, I'm posting exact duplicates of the post in the order they were made. They're in context.
Maybe you're trying to say something else?
quote:
Probably. It makes economic sense. The PC games market plus the console games market is much larger than the console game market alone. Any developer that already has PC game developement experience is very likely to port their games just so they can reach both markets. It's quite a bit of possible extra money, even taking the overlap into account. |
Yes, that's true, but you don't see all PS2/GC games being ported either. While it is true the Xbox should be easier to port, I doubt that many developers will. MS is going to (at least initially) sign lots of contracts with developers to try to get the Xbox to be "exclusive" for a game. I mean, if all the good games are available on PC, why bother getting an Xbox? MS is going to guarantee there's an abundant supply of good games only for Xbox.
And before someone goes on a rant about this is why MS shouldn't be in the console arena, you should remember that Sony isn't exactly better. Remember what they did to Bleem? Forced them out of business and strong-arming retailers.
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:16
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quote:
Blah, what the hell is this?
I have NO idea what you're trying to say. Technical development isn't going up as fast as it used to? Are you calling N64 first gen? Errr..? |
Very rarely are first generation titles improved upon by leaps and bounds when the second and third generations arrive.
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It's graphically mediocre because it's intended to be ported to the PC. In fact, it was originally intended for the PC/Mac. In order to take advantage of the second vertex pipeline you have to change some fundamental parts of the renderer. It's kinda like having dual processors: Having a second CPU in your box doesn't boost performance in every application. They need to be designed to support it. |
I'll see if I can't dig up some more screenshots of launch titles, especially the ever gorgeous NFL Fever.
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That's purely opinion.
The poly count on the players is MUCH lower in RTCW. Why don't you compare DOA3 players to RTCW's players? |
RTCW isn't a game of "players", it's mainly about environments. I assumed, since both the RTCW shots and the Halo shots involved nice outdoor images, that the comparison would be as fair as possible.
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The 1.2GHz P3 itself costs more than the entire Xbox. |
That's not the issue, the issue is the quality of the graphics that you see, PC and Xbox. In any event, you're right, but computers generally are used for more than videogame playing purposes.
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If you don't want to buy an Xbox, fine. Go away, **** off, I don't care how you want to phrase it. |
Calm down, asher.
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Xbox is undoubtedly the most powerful console out there, comparing it to the PC is useless and irrelevant. If the Xbox is so weak in comparison, why would anyone even consider getting a Gamecube or PS2, Wiglaf? Your logic is flawed, and it's frustrating to debate against. |
It's not logic, it's fact, judging by those screenshots and the few others I'm hoping to get sooner or later. Besides, the picture quality on a high end video card is much greater than that of the average home TV.
In any event, Gamecubes and PS2s are cheaper and have different types of games (generally, so far, ones with less depth and more wide ranging appeal) than the PC market does. So, they're popular.
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Wraith
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Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:16
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--"Context-dropping implies I'm not providing exact quotes of people I'm responding to"
Okay, so you don't know what context dropping is. Unfortunately, the webpage I've seen with the best summary doesn't seem to be up any more, so here's an example from it:
Context-dropping is ignoring the context a statement is made in. Generally, this is an assumed context that is readily apparent to everyone involved, including (especially) the person doing the context-dropping. For example, if I were to say "Ice is cold" and you were to reply "No, it's nowhere near absolute zero", this is a fine example of context-dropping. My comment was, and quite obviously so, meant in a human context. Compared to human temperature, and our comfort range, ice is cold. The counter-argurment ignores this to go off on a tangent that is totally inapplicable to the argument at hand.
Your "It's not a ten Gig drive" argument is a perfect example of this.
--"MS is going to (at least initially) sign lots of contracts with developers to try to get the Xbox to be "exclusive" for a game."
But what's the developer's motivation for agreeing to this? One of the X-Box's big pushing points (one you've brought up many times) is how easy it's supposed to be to port over to PC (or for PC developers to work with it). Why sign something that means you can't make a lot more money for a little more work?
Wraith
Create a system any fool can use and only a fool will want to use it
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Very rarely are first generation titles improved upon by leaps and bounds when the second and third generations arrive. |
Er...Compare early PS1 game graphics to the modern ones. Compare launch PS2 graphics to games like FFX.
As the developers know how to tweak their code to run best on a console, graphics improve greatly. Known fact.
But again, you're being ambiguous here. 'Titles' as in game titles or consoles? I thought your original comment was on consoles...
quote:
I'll see if I can't dig up some more screenshots of launch titles, especially the ever gorgeous NFL Fever.
RTCW isn't a game of "players", it's mainly about environments. I assumed, since both the RTCW shots and the Halo shots involved nice outdoor images, that the comparison would be as fair as possible. |
RTCW's outdoor scenes are nice, but they're much smaller in scale than Halo's. It also couldn't handle about 30-40 high-quality models on the screen at any given time (like Halo can). Not to mention the model quality is inferior, also.
RTCW looks nice, but it's not AS nice.
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That's not the issue, the issue is the quality of the graphics that you see, PC and Xbox. In any event, you're right, but computers generally are used for more than videogame playing purposes. |
That's not the only issue, Wiglaf.
To do tons of really advanced graphics work, you need to rely on a highend video card being installed on said PC. Those high end graphics cards cost more than consoles themselves...and then once you do have a smaller market of people with GeForce 3s/4s, etc, you have to fund support costs because of the nature of how PCs work.
The advantage of consoles is the exact same hardware is on every machine. This is much more useful from a developer's perspective, you can crank things to the max. With the PC, you have to find the middleground. Make it look nice, but also make it run on lower end hardware. That's RTCW (and to some extent, Halo). Games like DOA3 are prime examples of what you can do with the graphics engine of the Xbox (and it can only get better with time). Those type of graphics (especially the hair effects and hugely geometrically complex levels) are not possible on any existing PC hardware. The only setup that could MAYBE run it at 15fps is the GeForce 3 + 1.53GHz Athlon. And that costs a lot.
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It's not logic, it's fact, judging by those screenshots and the few others I'm hoping to get sooner or later. |
Oh, so now picture quality is 'fact' and absolute?
Then see my above comments on it, it's FACT, Wiglaf.
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Besides, the picture quality on a high end video card is much greater than that of the average home TV. |
It's also a great deal smaller.
And it's also FAR harder to play multiplayer (ie: 3 of your friends to play with at a party or something) on a PC.
I keep saying this again and again, but you are simply too dense to comprehend it: PCs and Consoles are good at different things. They both have their values, that's why I have both.
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In any event, Gamecubes and PS2s are cheaper and have different types of games (generally, so far, ones with less depth and more wide ranging appeal) than the PC market does. So, they're popular. |
They're cheaper than what? PS2 is not cheaper than the Xbox. Gamecube is...and they're all a great deal cheaper than a PC.
But again, that's not really the point. The point is some games are best on consoles, some are best on the PC.
The Xbox is the most powerful console out there (this is fact, again, Wiglaf). So seeing as I've already got a PS2 in the house, why wouldn't I get the Xbox? Compliments a home theatre system quite nicely, plays kickass games, great fun.
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Context-dropping is ignoring the context a statement is made in. Generally, this is an assumed context that is readily apparent to everyone involved, including (especially) the person doing the context-dropping. For example, if I were to say "Ice is cold" and you were to reply "No, it's nowhere near absolute zero", this is a fine example of context-dropping. My comment was, and quite obviously so, meant in a human context. Compared to human temperature, and our comfort range, ice is cold. The counter-argurment ignores this to go off on a tangent that is totally inapplicable to the argument at hand.
Your "It's not a ten Gig drive" argument is a perfect example of this. |
Actually, Wraith, let's turn this around for a second.
MY comment was the Xbox's HD is 8 gigs (Ice is cold).
YOUR comment was essentially "technically it's 10 gigs on some consoles" even when the box can't use it (No, it's nowhere near absolute zero"
You've got it all backwards.
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But what's the developer's motivation for agreeing to this? One of the X-Box's big pushing points (one you've brought up many times) is how easy it's supposed to be to port over to PC (or for PC developers to work with it). Why sign something that means you can't make a lot more money for a little more work? |
Most powerful console, easier development tools than the other consoles, large installed base of high end equipment. Additions like a hard drive on ALL consoles, ethernet on ALL consoles, etc. always good.
Much of the games, if they are being released later on the PC, are being done so a while after the Xbox version comes out (again, games like Halo).
No matter how you look at it, the Xbox is a very good console to develop for. Especially when compared to the PS2 (which is supposedly a real pain in the ass to develop for). The Gamecube is also pretty easy to develop for (it uses OpenGL, IIRC) and a mainstream CPU architecture. But then again, it lacks things like a HD, ethernet, and Dolby Digital 5.1.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:16
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Originally posted by Wiglaf
First generation titles aren't very much improved later on. Look at the N64 - nothing big. Look at the PS2 - not much. Look at Dreamcast - only slight. |
PS2's is nothing big?!
Maybe you and Zero_Tolerance can make your own analyst firm, I'm sure you guys would do great in the real world.
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(Buttons on the controller) X (Number of built in 56k modems) X (Number of consoles company has released in the past that have sold more than 50,000 in their first week) + (State of Economy - [-10, depression], [-5, recession], [3 better)] / (Amount of times the color white or blue are on case or controller in different amounts and sections) / (Number of Letters in Company Name of Publisher) / (year of console release minus 666 minus 999) / (number of positive screenshots provided by preview and review sites on launch titles) . If the number is above 95, it's a good buy.
Works every time.  |
Just so you know, by your formula, the Playstation 1 would have been a complete and utter flop.
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23-11-2001 06:34
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