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Dev
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quote:
I think there are 2 major bugs:
1. Interception
2. Coastal Fortress
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Don't play, no problem.
quote:
wel, civ3 comes with some intern trainers
Don't use, no problem.
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Nice logic eh?
Tell me, how do you prevent the AI from using these "trainers" ?
/dev
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Max Webster
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Everytime I ask for ridiculous amounts of gold, I get a "not enough gold" message.
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chazmyrr
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There are definately some anomalies in the way that the AI uses gold on Deity level. Of course there are a lot of unusual things that happen on Deity level. I really wish Civ3 had the build in cheat mode so I could step through turn by turn and see what the AI is doing. I start getting suspicious when the AI builds a second (third?) city next to my capitol in 3800-3700 BC. This has happened in a number of games. It almost seems as if the AI can rush build with gold while still in despotism and/or can build settlers even if the population would normally cause the city to be abandoned.
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dr.charm
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To the moron who said 'Don't play' in response to the other poster pointing out that interception and coastal forces don't work (2 major bugs), I say, please, 'Don't post'.
Sheesh. Do you think maybe the person *wants* to play the game and even use the parts of the game that are claimed to be in it?
Get a grip.
Cheers,
Dr. Charm
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Ozymandous
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Atlanta, GA
Aug 2001
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
Malkuth, the ONE MILLION DOLLARS bug (that has to be it's official name, please give me proper credit on it) is a problem not because it's an exploitable cheat, but because the rules system is broken enough to allow it.
If it will give me ONE MILLION DOLLARS on a turn, who's to say that the 10 it's giving me for trade for my silk is legit? We know that there apparently isn't a check that works on the AI to verify it has the right amount of money for that deal, so who's to say that it isn't screwing it up and making up money when it rush buys items? Is it just printing money? It betrays the fact that the system is broken, badly in a place. So it's not enough to say "just don't ask for ONE MILLION DOLLARS", because if it fails to make sure it's valid for a million, who's to say any of the other trades are any more valid? It's no longer trustworthy.
Venger |
Sorry flawed logic. Just because an apple is red and a crayon is red, a crayon is something to write with and a pencil is something you write with, does NOT mean that an apple is something you write with.
In other words, because A = B and B = C does not mean A = C.
You're pointing to one bug in the game where a variable overflowed and acting as if the whole game is broken. This is a logical fallacy.
Example: In Moo2, if you had over 32,000 science per turn you reverted to that much in NEGATIVE science. Did this mean that the whole game was broken? Nope, it just means they had the wrong variable type in there.
This does not mean the entire game is broken. Now then, if you really want to see a broken game go get Diablo2 & it's expansion pack and then apply their patch, you'll have a game that's still broken at it's essence, which does not appear to be the case with Civ3.
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Dev
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quote:
Originally posted by chazmyrr
There are definately some anomalies in the way that the AI uses gold on Deity level. Of course there are a lot of unusual things that happen on Deity level. I really wish Civ3 had the build in cheat mode so I could step through turn by turn and see what the AI is doing. I start getting suspicious when the AI builds a second (third?) city next to my capitol in 3800-3700 BC. This has happened in a number of games. It almost seems as if the AI can rush build with gold while still in despotism and/or can build settlers even if the population would normally cause the city to be abandoned. |
Chaz I played around on deity yesterday and got to start within view of another civ, In turn one I spotted :
1 scout, 2 archers, 1 warrior, 1 settler and 2 workers leave his newly founded city. Add another 2+ units which left in a direction where I couldn't see them and it's very likely the AI got 3 settlers off the bat.
/dev
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Dev
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quote:
Originally posted by dr.charm
To the moron who said 'Don't play' in response to the other poster pointing out that interception and coastal forces don't work (2 major bugs), I say, please, 'Don't post'.
Sheesh. Do you think maybe the person *wants* to play the game and even use the parts of the game that are claimed to be in it?
Get a grip.
Cheers,
Dr. Charm |
Boy you radiate intelligence, how about you get some reading comprehension and buy an ironic clue before you start calling people morons ?
Have a nice day.
/dev
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dr.charm
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Many people think that making a nasty comment about someone's valid complaints is 'ironic'.
Dr. Charm
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozymandous
Sorry flawed logic. Just because an apple is red and a crayon is red, a crayon is something to write with and a pencil is something you write with, does NOT mean that an apple is something you write with. |
You are comparing inductive reasoning with the integrity of a mathematical system?
quote:
In other words, because A = B and B = C does not mean A = C. |
Actually, in math, it kinda does. It kinda has to or the thing doesn't work. To use your pedantic example, if an Apple's color (A)is the same as a crayon's color (B), and a crayon's color (B) is red (C), then, yes captain IntroToLogic, an Apple's color (A) is red (C).
Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts...
quote:
You're pointing to one bug in the game where a variable overflowed and acting as if the whole game is broken. |
THE WHOLE GAME IS BROKEN. Freaking please dude, in addition to bad examples of intro to logic 101 you also have a gift for hyperbole. Where else does the variable overflow? Is it only at that one place? If you weighed 140 pounds but had a scale that said 160 when you got on it, would you think it accurate at every other weight? This is the problem - we know it has a serious bug - and others - as such it's integrity is compromised. Until they can explain the bugs or get them fixed, you should view that system as unreliable.
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This is a logical fallacy. |
Woohoo! On to page two of the logic handbook now...
quote:
Example: In Moo2, if you had over 32,000 science per turn you reverted to that much in NEGATIVE science. Did this mean that the whole game was broken? Nope, it just means they had the wrong variable type in there. |
How do you know what the bug is? The game also turns down 100 gold offered for 10. Is that a variable bug too?
quote:
This does not mean the entire game is broken. Now then, if you really want to see a broken game go get Diablo2 & it's expansion pack and then apply their patch, you'll have a game that's still broken at it's essence, which does not appear to be the case with Civ3. |
This part is clearly broken. God you flat earthers just love the Emperor's new clothes...
Venger
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zapperio
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Halifax, NS
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
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The only thing that seems to be broken around here is your sense of perspective mr. venger.
Zap
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dr.charm
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Venger seems to be one of the few people here *with* perspective. There are two camps apparently: The 'My favourite little thing isn't in the game, it's irreperably broken, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT' crowd; and the 'It doesn't matter if air superiority doesn't work, if you think that it should, you obviously think that the game totally sucks and just want to try and damage its reputation' crowd.
It would be a great if *more* people were like Venger in fact. The game is good, *very* good in fact, but there *are* Firaxis-acknowledged problems with it, one of them being air superiority.
Cheers,
Dr. Charm
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Death's Toe
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/ot
quote:
Originally posted by Ozymandous
In other words, because A = B and B = C does not mean A = C.
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Holy sweet jesus, I can't believe you actually posted this!?!? Are you serious?
If A = B, and B = C, then A MUST = C. There is NO way around this, at ALL. This is pure logic, plain and simple.
/ot
Last edited by Death's Toe on 15-11-2001 at 00:49
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:16
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Hiya! I, for one, appreciate your posting of this exploit in the game and I think it does need to be closed by Firaxis in the patch. I also believe that no single person in this forum is qualified to make judgements that the entire game is broken nor is there any one person in this forum who's opinion is more valid than everyone else's (despite several posts by many others that seem to indicate their viewpoints are superior). Disagreeing with a point is certainly within everyone's individual rights and is to be expected for many issues. However, it would better serve the overall quality of the forum if such disagreements could be carried out more diplomatically. Perhaps we just have too many Civ3 warmongers, but a rational discourse should not be this difficult. So, thanks for the loophole and those of us who don't want to use it will not do so and hopefully Firaxis will tie up that loose end in the patch.
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zapperio
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Halifax, NS
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
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I haven't tested it myself but Sunshine reported a different bug at the beginning of the thread and I understand it is unrelated to setting the requirements for strat resources in the editor. So it is still outstanding issue.
Zap
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dr.charm
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No, perspective is taking the middle line, which is what I've been doing, and (at least in this thread) what Venger has been doing. Others seem to think that a minor exploit (that you don't have to use) ruins the game, and others that air superiority is but a minor advantage to give to the AI.
Cheers,
Dr. Charm
P.S. Where in Halifax? I'm from Antigonish, though living in NYC.
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sunshine
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Well, to me the obvious fix to the exploit I started this thread with is to make the trade pacts last for 20 years. Just like the manual and the civilopedia says they do. If you are unable to produce said item, the ai doesn't receive it- but if, in the course of that twenty years, you become able to produce said item again, the ai gets the surplus. And if you traded for gold/turn, you shouldn't receive that unless the ai gets their resource.
In other words, make trade work like trade.
A possible addendum would be to make the counter stop incrementing when the trade good is unavailable.
MarkG, if you haven't had a situation in which the ai is ahead of you in tech, maybe you should play on a higher difficulty level? If you've managed to beat the ai in tech research on deity without using an exploit I really want to hear from you.
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14-11-2001 16:00
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