14-11-2001 19:45									#1
	Research in mid-game = pointless? Granaries = pointless? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have found that there is no point trying to research techs in the mid-game on emperor level, at least. No matter how hard I try, I can't keep up with the AI, so I usually just set science to zero and pay for whatever techs I want. Then I trade those techs to the other civs (if the AI hasn't done so already, it seems like there is a one turn differential before it will offer the tech to other civs after researching a tech, but I'm not sure about that one) for money or whatever else I might need. I just finished a game on a tiny board with a U-shaped panagea. I was on one end (India) with the French on the other. I kept paying the French for their tech and then trading the tech to other two civs (again, this was emperor level). Eventually, France took over the other two civs, but by the time it managed to do that, we were towards the end game where I could research tech faster and pump up my military so they wouldn't attack me. I won the space race in 1804 before France had built it's second space ship part. Anyway, this seems to work for me because I was able to buildup a large treasury which I could exploit for faster science later when it counted (deficit spending). In this way, I never fought even a single battle during the whole game.

Also, granaries and the pyramids are worthless. I usually want my cities to actually grow a little slower so they don't get too big too fast before I can keep everyone happy. They also wind up pinned at size 6 for a while before I get around to building aqueducts. I've decided against building hospitals if I'm going for the space race (which is what I usually do).

Anyone else have similar experiences?

	14-11-2001 19:57									#2
	Re: Research in mid-game = pointless? Granaries = pointless? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by drenasu I have found that there is no point trying to research techs in the mid-game on emperor level, at least.

So far I've only played on Monarch and not Emperor, but the mid-game has been the period in which I've usually begun to pass the AI in technology and begin to sell it to them for profit. I'm guessing this might have to do with the fact that I play on Huge maps and also what I bring up below...

quote: Also, granaries and the pyramids are worthless. I usually want my cities to actually grow a little slower so they don't get too big too fast before I can keep everyone happy. They also wind up pinned at size 6 for a while before I get around to building aqueducts. I've decided against building hospitals if I'm going for the space race (which is what I usually do).

On a tiny map I can see doing this, but I like to play on Huge maps, where the population caps aren't really important because you simply use those cities to produce settlers/workers. Often I will have cities that are built upon flood plains send out settlers simply to move population into my smaller cities on my frontier, which are unproductive and in danger of conversion, to help them grow more quickly. Once hospitals are available, while a lot of excess population doesn't help you out in resources, it does produce more science/gold when you convert them to scientists/tax collectors (and if you wish to quit producing frontier settlers with your lvl.12's, then you can simply convert some of the grassland/floodplain workers over to scientists).

	14-11-2001 20:53									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Graneries are far from pointless. I read somewhere that a few people felt the Pyramids were pretty worthless as well. If you use the Despotic meathod of working your citizens to death to get Cultural improvements up faster, the recovery time (so you can work more of them to death) is half as long. So it takes one turn to build the temple, you get back up to three residents in half the time it would take to build the Colosium and build it in another turn. Fast, clean, and real hard on pop, but your culture grows faster.

It also helps with the expansion phase of the empire. The less time it takes to replace the population going into the settler and worker units, the more you create and the faster your empire expands.

Far from worthless...

	14-11-2001 21:03									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I guess you have a point about the granaries, but it always seems to me that I am on to republic or at least monarchy long before I could have built the Pyramids or granaries for that matter since I'm concentrating on temples, warriors, workers, and settlers in the early game. Perhaps it is just my playing style which makes them useless to me (on high level games, only).

	14-11-2001 21:50									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I just started playing (to get the feel of it). Huge map/16 civs/continents/normal settings/Greek civ/Roaming barbs - first game started off at warlord. I thought I should skip Chieftain and I found Warlord moderately easy. Corruption is an issue, at least for the distance factor (I haven't grown so big to find out about the #of cities factor yet).

I found granaries (and thus the Pyramids) quite useless, since when I am able to get them I am ramming into Republic. No advantage for me though, so no Pyramids.

In my second game (same settings but at Regent) I was #4 when I retired (around 100 AD) waaaay behind the comp in technology. It looks like the only factor I was able to push over the AI (with a big lead) was culture and (secondary) population - in military, size, science I was behind the AI for good.

btw the culture strategy is very much viable, but I'll have to work out the details and win a couple of games at Regent, before moving on to Emperor (that would be quite of a challenge...).

Anyone succesful in Emperor/Deity on a Huge map? That would be something to boast about...