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OK, here's the email from AroSch, I cut out some miscellaneous stuff... 
quote:
Hi Andz, ...
I just read your post at Apolyton...
I'm "AroSch" at Apolyton...
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yeah, yeah... I like it to cut unimportant stuff
quote:
Now to your project:
What do you consider a "co-design", exactly?
- Co-Design, does that mean the work separation between 2 or more designers? Perhaps one is responsible for the graphics (e.g. me), one for the tech-tree, one for he map etc... - of course evrything has to be "discussed"
- But should you think of a Co-Design as such, that many other ideas are implemented in your project, I can highly recommend you to have a look at www.civII.de under "Neuzeit-Einheiten" ("Modern Units"), by me - AroSch . There you should find suitable units for the scenario.
And there are some questions I have concerning the scenario:
- do you want to make bigger changes in the rules or are you going to work with the standard, "slightly changed" (I could hardly translate "beschnitten" with "circumcised"   ) tech tree?
- do you actually intend to use new units (perhaps even using the empty slots)
- in other words: is it just going to be a re-design for the GIGA map or an expansion and improvement?
Aome ideas and suggestions:
- I'd find it cool to make the work halfway historically "correct"; so it should be almost impossible to conquer whole Asia and Europe. (Germany Russia, China etc. have never been conquered by the colonial powers - so they shouldn't in the scenario either, perhaps?)
By that the naval supremacy would gain moer importance than it could reach if the player had the possibility to conquer Asia and Europe (first)...
However, the relatively stupid AI (Provost:  )will have problems here... 
- Stefan Härtel's proposal is good! (is it?! )
- Are you going to support the AI per events, for example for a more realistic colonization of the Americas? - appears important for me (and also for me)
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Hey, if you want to complain about my playtesting, at least talk to Kestrel first for permission...
As far as suggestions go, well, my scenario attempts so far have been humble, obscure, and never published...that said, any particular questions, problems, ideas, etc, you want?
"Beta re-re-re-retest! Ex aequali, et spiritus ad infinitum!"
-KhanMan
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Try this on for size: how about a series of random events (or maybe, half random, with some set triggers), that give godl to the main countries, or reinforcements in the new world, when certain conditions are met.
You might even make it a choice, a la Troy, in which you can either get gold for key successes in the new world, or techs, or reinforcements...
Or maybe you might use high cost city improvements to make the search for gold (through trade routes, events, maybe even hunting down the Seven Cities of German Scenario Making Might) a vital part of any victory...say, how about making market places cost 10 gold apiece, per turn? That would force players to trade, quest, expand, whatever you want them to do...
Oh, wait, what is it you want them to do? We need that first
-KhanMan
------------------
Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)
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can I join your leage against the Finnish mongers? 
well, I also thought about the random events for European nations to give them reinforcements in the new world, I was particularly thinking about Conquistador units, that would be created in the new world. but then, how can I make sure that they are set on a square that is already conquered by the Spanish?
I'm surely not going to create that unit in Spain, as they're able to conquer whole Europe with a unit that is supposed to be used in the New World only...
any comments on AroSch's email and/or my re-mail?
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Unless I'm mistakened, you can safely put them in a city the Spanish start with in the new world (you are giving them a city there, or, at least, one they can conquer easily, right?
Let's see...you give starting positions for the units in reinforcements, so you could give a list, say, all the squares within 2 radius of mexico city? Whatever is free would get the unit.
Also, I'm not sure, but do mutliple triggers work with MGE? I mean, would you have to do something like "turn x, civ y get's unit z", or "city a taken by civ b, civ get's unit c",
or could you do something like ToT's "Troy/Ilium" Scenario, which was "if Greeks have a living Menaleus unit, they get a Spartan unit once a turn", or "while Spanish control city "Mexico City/Tenotchitlan", they get a "Conquistador" unit every x turns"? (x maybe random?)
Y'all who know events better know the answer to this? I know it works in ToT...
As for joining OTAATFPM, sure thing! This makes two of us, I think...maybe three
So what about trade? Or will this be more of a conquest scenario?
BTW-I don't think I asked: what section of the world is in this particular giga map? Does it include Asia/Indies/Japan? Maybe Portugese or French Traders vs. Spanish Conquistadors vs. English Colonists vs. ...? Each country having a strength in one area?
Or how would you want it?
-KhanMan
PS. A little late, but mind if I join whatever co-design group you have?
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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More:
If this is an MP, or, at least, human-oriented scenario, a house rule against the coquistadors leaving America would work...and the ai won't move them, IMHO, if they are threatened in America (as they would always be)
As for delaying the conquest of Europe, if you want, you could make it harder with a move-factor-zero defensive unit, say, one in Berlin, one in Moscow...I think, however, that it should be at least POSSIBLE to conquer europe.
IMHO, if all non-colonial europe is one civ, including russia and China (is this right?), then even a restricted ai would be difficult to beat, from continental European bases...hsitorical reason why America was important
What about trade? *eg*
-KhanMan
------------------
Sprecher der ToT
First Minister of Machiavellia
Founder, OTAATFPM
(Off Topic Apolytoners Against The Finnish Power-Mongers)
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well, the map conatins the whole world
your ideas make sense, but there's no WHILE command in the EVENTS code
no, I haven't thought about too many aspects of trade yet
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Ah, it must only be in ToT...
Tot has "flags", which record whether a certain condition (such as the Spanish controling the city of Madrid) is true or false, allowing "while..." events.
However, you could use a modified version of this idea, making a series of events that when the spanish capture a certain city or cities, or when the kill a certain unit, they get reinforcements as a reward...say, a series of steps they follow, like in the Rise of Rome Campaign?
Just MHO, though
-KhanMan
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I'm not goingto do this on my own! only a few playtesters isn't enough, I need some constructive help
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yes you are, your help so far appears very useful
but only you and AroSch - that's too little. I expected a tad more support... well, that's about it fellas? I don't have too much time these days so I won't be able to start working.
oh come on, there must be someone willing to get into such a cool scenario design
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grimreap
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Bristol, England, UK
Nov 2000
time: 05:12
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I also would be interested, but unfortunately I have a serious lack of skill, knowledge, talent etc.
Sorry.
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grimreap
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Bristol, England, UK
Nov 2000
time: 05:12
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Although I would be unable to actually do any editing, i'd be happy to write descriptions, e.g to put in Civolopedia etc or outlining the scenario perhaps. I don't know if this is any help.
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oh yes, sure! we also need entries for the pedia.txt etc. as I'm not English/American myself I'm not really able to write proper entries for that file, so I can need any help here.
I have to do the major work on the scenario itself before we can think of pedia texts, of course
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I think Andz83 hasn't found the time to start the deeper work yet. He told me that he made the most important map changes, set the locations, and thought about the infantry units.
No techs changed yet, no city founded. But the civs are already there, a settler on every future city location
Africa and America are one civ. Northern Africa, however, is going to be in the Euro-Asian Bloc, as Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Asia is
The European Powers should be clear, the Spanish will be superior in a long term. Realistic so far. No detail work done yet.
Some guys are already signed in as wrizters for the PEDIA etc. Would those people be so nice and post their certain jobs, again? ok then
Those who don't have a special job yet (noone is working yet at all, but a job should already be given ) may be patient, there will be enough work.
Andz83 himself is on vacation for spamming in the OT, I'll post for him as long as he is.
Ah, this reminds me of the good old Strategist-posting days
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*tries getting this goliath off the ground*
*fails in doing this*
ok, where is that scenario?
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Snog
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Discovery scenarios are my favorite. I am very close to being done with the 2nd version of one that uses a small map, western hemisphere only, 3 native, 4 european, 1 independant (pirates, misc. natives) civs. The only thing left to do is draw some longhouses for the iroquois civ. I have some original units and city graphics you can borrow if you like them.
Small maps have their advantages, but I, too was wondering what a discovery scenario might be like on a huge map.
The main problem with the age of discovery scenario in my opinion is there is one civ that is far too powerful: the neutral alliance. I think it should be broken up into several smaller civs.
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27-11-2000 10:16
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