14-11-2001 23:53									#1
	ICS and drones Tired of ads?

I'm trying a SP game using true full ICS for the first time ever. Playing Miriam, just for the heck of it (wanting Demo's efficiency while retaining the free minerals for a new base.)

I built Human Genome. But I'm about to get Planetary Transit, which is gonna cause major drone problems when every base suddenly jumps from size 1 to 3. How is ICS supposed to handle drones?

Do you briefly skip the no base facilities idea and build rec commons? One Police unit and one doctor per base? Psych doesn't really help, since you get the "double-drones" pretty quick, and Psych only turns a double-drone into a normal drone while police and facilities directly quell a double-drone.

	15-11-2001 01:17									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Like many answers, it depends. A size 3 should be ok for now with a first content citizen turned into a talent from the HGP and the PTS also quells one drone IIRC. Therefore with a talent to balance off your single drone you should avoid unrest for now. As bureacracy drones come into play you will have to ensure that there is a police unit as well, or a doctor assigned.

The more obvious answer is to build a colony pod. Even if Bur. drones get so bad that you need to use a doctor in your new size 3 you produce (even starving the base back to size 2), the CP remains a good investment. After an initial POP up to size 3, all existing bases can produce a CP to go back to size 2 and then if you wish, stop taking in any food beyond sustenance needs while you produce more and more mineral and energy production through crawlers --the new bases on your frontiers will be the ones pumping out even more CPs . Another alternative is for selected bases to grow up to size 5 using crawled food. Once there you can use the useful specialists. This is a tactic I often use for far-flung captured bases with high inneficiency. Crawl enough food to keep it at 5 population and use 4-5 librarians or later, engineers.

As for rec commons, I would put those only in bases you plan to grow further. perhaps if your capitol could be a science base you could think of putting in a rec commons to allow more squares to be worked.

	15-11-2001 02:10									#3
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I'm already WAY over the bur-drone limit, and already have some double-drones appearing. I had forgotten that PTS does quell one drone*, but then HGP just makes that one happy and I'm left with a talent and two drones. I guess you just have to make do with police and doctors, until sky hydro farms can get you to size 5 for better specialists. Lal's got Intellectual Integrity and won't give it to me... guess I gotta go take it.

Is it ever worth going into Free Market when ICSing? Or do you just live on the Governor and Wealth +energy per base?

*Actually, PTS seems to quell a drone for every base under size 4 on the _planet_, not just its owner's! And it's listed under Facilities, not Secret Projects. Took me a long time to puzzle out this one, after mysteriously seeing a citizen get contented in only some bases in only some games. This is SMAC 4.0, maybe it was fixed in SMAX?

	15-11-2001 02:54									#4
	Tired of ads?

Thats an odd PTS effect-- I do not recall that

Your options are as you indicate. If you start trying to build a rec commons in every base . . . well thats a heck of a lot of resources.


As for FM, I am trying to recall if a pacifist/bureaucratic drones etc could EVER make the HGP talent, anything less than a talent. If the talent stays regardless, ALL your size 2 s will avoid unrest for as long as they are a size 2.

staying small, police, and doctors seem to be your options --although I have always liked the idea of having a couple of cities grow. Pick one or two (include your capital) and rehome a bunch of crawlers to it. In these cities, build the rec commons, research hospital, tree farms and crawl energy to it and watch the spike in your research--


As for your size twos, what the problem with staying size two?? Crawl some minerals and get some armies moving

	15-11-2001 03:12									#5
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I'm not a purist ICSer, but I would think that at a certain point of exapansion it would be more profitable to start conquering other factions bases and halt your original colony pod expansion altogether. I think it also goes without saying that when you do become so large you should probably focus on a few of your early bases, or bases of strategic importance, for building some form of infrastructure. If I remember correctly it's fairly easy to stop a base from growing at size 3 if you have two workers on forests, pre-tree farm, and one on a square that nets you 2 nutrients. From that point you could focus on getting crawlers to that base to pump up mineral output to 15-20 and while that base lacks energy/lab output it is a real powerhouse in term of minerals, which translates into more crawlers, more formers, and most importantly more units to go on the offense with.

It would seem you'd lack the energy and lab output of other factions simply because you lack the infrastructure, but that hasn't been the case for me as the amount of bases, when put up quickly, more than compensates for the lack of infrastructure. By the time you do meet other factions you'll be well on your way to creating a military juggernaut simply because you have so many points of production (all those little bases).

quote: *Actually, PTS seems to quell a drone for every base under size 4 on the _planet_, not just its owner's! And it's listed under Facilities, not Secret Projects. Took me a long time to puzzle out this one, after mysteriously seeing a citizen get contented in only some bases in only some games. This is SMAC 4.0, maybe it was fixed in SMAX?

It would seem to work correctly if the HGP made one drone into a happy citizen, but not if it changed one content into a happy. Hmmm...

	15-11-2001 03:50									#6
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b. drones can make the talent a citizen, though I've never had it become a drone yet. a game a lil while back I had ~60 bases on std. size map w/ yang, and the new bases had the first worker as a citizen.

and if I remember correctly its only for bases <3 that the PTS will take away a drone.

also realize that pacifist drones are a SUPER PAIN. they come in AFTER secret projects and facilities, and everything. so a size 1 w/ a police unit can riot if it has pacifist drones on its ass. I'm not sure about the HGP, but my guess is it comes in after that just like it comes in after everything else.

	15-11-2001 15:47									#7
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T-Hawk,

Have you read any old threads where David Byron outlines his Borg strategy? He was pretty good at it, doing well in challenges etc. He used the University to get the free Network Node, and kept his bases at size three. The free nodes make the VW a real bargain, because you get a free Holographic theatre to boot. Every project that gives you free infrastructure is worthwhile. Anyway, if the search function is working see if you can dig up some old threads where David Byron posted. I know he explained his tactics in some depth.

	16-11-2001 04:31									#8
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On the order of effects:

first psych
then facilities and police
then pacifist drones
then secret projects

Thus the HGP can "quell" pacifist drones

It, in my experience, however, only (but always) makes the drone into a regular citizen. It is therefore *required* in all specialist bases which house pacifists if you want to grow that base. You make the base all specialists. On growth, the new citizen comes out a worker rather than a drone because of the HGP, and then you convert it to a specialist again.

Actually, though I have never done it, I suppose you could crawl all the squares(or have them used by other bases), in your specialist base, and then the new citizen would come out a specialist. Hmmm... I'll have to remember that.

On the PTS and drones:

The easiest way to quell drones with the PTS is with the HGP, as was mentioned. 1 talent, 1 worker, and 1 drone. Though, as bdrones appear, you will only have 2 workers and a drone, thus have to immediately crawl food, pre-satellites, making your last worker a doctor(or empath). (Another solution only for the UoP, is of course the VW). If you don't have the PTS, then even though a chore, always sent 2(or a bunch) of crawlers along to rehome to the newly created base. Immediately crawl food as necessary, and then mins to get your choice of NN(with the VW), or rec comms, or even TF if you are pop booming, to hurry growth to 5, when you may want to use all or mostly specialists instead of facilities(especially in outlying bases).