15-11-2001 04:51									#1
	Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: Chinese Unique Unit Inflate your Upload Space

As explained in the main discussion thread, we should decide on some of the Unique Units for the Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack ASAP so the graphics people can start working when they're ready. So that's what this thread is about : deciding what the Unique Unit of the Chinese should be. I think I picked the most logical choices but feel free to post alternatives (if 'Other' becomes very popular we could have a 'second round').

For each civ I added a very brief description to give an impresssion of the importance of each unit. Note that I had to make 20 odd descriptions for 5 threads so I didn't bother doing extensive research or anything, 95% of the info is from the top of my head. So it's quite possible I made some mistakes or left out vital information or whatever. I very much encourage others with more knowlegde and time to post more elaborate explanations and/or point out my mistakes (some pictures could be useful as well, esp. for the graphics people).



Explanations:
Elaborate discussion has taken place on this subject in the past, opinions were divided. Some felt the Rider was a good Unique Unit, some felt it was good but needed to be renamed ('Rider' for a horseman, that's like 'Walker' for an infantry unit, 'Flyer' for an aircraft or 'Sailer' for a boat), others felt some sort of Crossbowman should the the Chinese UU, yet others felt something else should be the Chinese Unique Unit. Time to decide...

The Chinese have at many points in their history used cavalry in all kinds of forms and types. Often though, the best cavalry troops were simply hired 'barbarians' (Mongols, Huns, Turics, etc) and not Chinese at all.

The Chinese have been using Crossbows since centuries (possibly even millenia) BC, long before anyone else. Terracotta Crossbowmen have been found in the famous grave of the first Chinese Emperor and these units have been used in great numbers throughout Chinese history. Europeans eventually used Crossbowmen as well but only for a few centuries and they were probably far less effective with them. Crossbowmen were extremely easy to train compared to most other types of Archers, esp. Longbowmen.

The first reports of Repeating Crossbows (a crossbow that could fire up to 6 arrows automatically with 1-2 second interfals; sort of a primitive Machine Gun) go back to around 200 AD. They have been used up to 1900 at least. As far as known, the Chinese were the only civilization in the world to use these weapons. The most famous type was the Cho-Ko-Nu. For some reason though, but no type of Repeating Crossbow was never used in great numbers, even though they were apparently easy to use and reasonably accurate. They were difficult and expensive to produce, that might have played a part.

	15-11-2001 07:26									#2
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I know they make a lot of junk, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it should be their UU.

I like the cho-ko-nu idea though.

	15-11-2001 07:36									#3
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I like the Chu Ko Nu idea...they were the chinese unique unit in Age of Kings, they were always one of my favorites to use

	15-11-2001 18:38									#4
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Surprising to see how many votes the Chu-Ko-Nu, a very niche weapon, get. Perhaps it's because the name is so cool?

	15-11-2001 20:33									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

If memory serves me, the Chinese were the first to use gunpowder in combat. How about the first ancient cannon...cheaper than the catapult, but with a lower bombard value...or something like that. They weren't very accurate.

	15-11-2001 22:20									#6
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Nah, becuase it really isn't what they're known for, and was never a major component of their military ensemble. Besides, the Chinese invented gunpowder, they sure as hell didn't master its use on the battle field.

	16-11-2001 04:34									#7
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ok ok Chu-Ko-Nu becouse it have the best name.....

	16-11-2001 11:17									#8
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Locutus gives a good reason why it should be crossbowmen (the cavalry was not made up of chinese) and why not Cho-Ko-nu (too rare). Besides, Cho-ko-Nu are a type of crossbowmen so it seems to me to be a moot point (fine, name it Cho-Ko-Nu for the cool name but we will all know its a crossbowman at heart!)
The unit should replace the Longbowman, with a 4/2/1 (making it more survivable) and it should also take less shileds to make (to allow the chinese to filed mass armies, as they always did).

	18-11-2001 07:07									#9
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I thought that a diplomatic type unit would be quite fitted to China, especially given the constant bureaucracy that the dynasties eventually became. It wouldn't necessarily have a particularly powerful function above and beyond normal diplomats in "offensive" missions, but its defence would be quite high, translating into a higher protection against steal technology attempts and other diplomatic nefarious deeds.

I think this reflects quite well on how Chinese internal society was structured, especially the imperial bureaucracy. (Remember that this is a culture whose earlier beliefs placed God or Shang Di at the head of a Celestial Bureaucracy that could sometimes be quite inefficient - a rather realistic mythology!)

*sigh* But sadly there are no diplomat/spy units in Civ3. But I still think it's a good idea.