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Snog
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I make maps from scratch. I use elevation and vegetation models as references (for historical maps.)
At least as important as accuracy (for scenario maps) is playability and interest. I feel I'm pretty good at that; drawing my experience from a decade of civ playing.
So far the only maps I've made are fictional or maps including some part or all of the western hemisphere.
Is there anything specific you wanted to talk about?
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Snog
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Sure what size did you have in mind and what are your ideas. Also what do you mean by a diplo game?
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Snog on 01-08-2001 01:54 AM
Sure what size did you have in mind and what are your ideas. Also what do you mean by a diplo game?
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A diplo game is MP Civ2 game with Diplomacy as the prime object. Players are not generally eliminated, and negotiations between Players settle most disputes.
There will be 7 Human Players, so I am looking for a 75x100 map. The map should be mostly large continents (Earthlike, but differently shaped). The terrain should be mostly temperate (no large blocks of desert, jungle, mountain, or swamp). Since 7 civs will be continuing the whole game, there is little point in having lots of unusable land.
The special features I want are:
Circumnavigable waters at the poles, with ice at the very poles for land unit movement. The polar ice should be reachable by land bridges in a few spots from the continents.
Preset resouces and civ starting positions. Further, the start positions should be well-scaterred and offer some equitable resource in the settler's initial view. A whale, preferably, but buffalo, corn, etc if not on the coast.
We would like the huts eliminated.
Map settings would include village barbarians only, 1x1x movement and production, King level.
Does that sound doable?
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Snog
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Sounds very doable; except to wipe out the goody huts, I need to make a .sav or .scn file. So instead of using the start on premade world you would have to use load saved game; is that ok?
Also isn't circumnavigible at the poles and land bridges connecting to the poles a contradiction?
The size 75x100 seems reasonable. It's half way in between a square (50x100) and the 2:1 ratio of a mercator projection (100x100).
--Snog
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Snog
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Before you said 75x100, but 75x120 is ok too. Just give me a couple days to get the scenario i'm doing into the play-test phase and then i'll whip up a map for you. How many civs are going to be on it? Or better yet, how many starting positions should I concern myself with? (Should there be the option of using any of the 21... just the first 7, the first 5, the first 15? let me know)
--Snog
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donwebb
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Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Dec 2000
time: 05:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 01-10-2001 10:52 AM
I have made a map of medieval Iran containing Afghanistan and parts of India, which I think is very good, but it is large, meaning the square-by-square terrain stuff is impossible.
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This may be a bit off the subject, sorry, but I need some advice.
I have a lot of real-world maps, especially Europe and parts of the "Near East." My trade policy is to ship freights by sea whenever possible. The easiest trade routes go through the Mediterranean and Black and Red seas. But since the land masses are all connected, doesn't that reduce trade revenue?
In other words, is there an advantage to constructing artificial sea lanes -- which means the map is no longer "real world" -- in order to make sure that trade cities are located on different continents separated by straits?
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by donwebb on 01-10-2001 07:09 PM
This may be a bit off the subject, sorry, but I need some advice.
I have a lot of real-world maps, especially Europe and parts of the "Near East." My trade policy is to ship freights by sea whenever possible. The easiest trade routes go through the Mediterranean and Black and Red seas. But since the land masses are all connected, doesn't that reduce trade revenue?
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Yes, it does. The program identifies every unique land mass (from a 1 tile island to the largest continent) by assigning a number for each. Cities with the same landmass number in their coordinates will not give overseas trade bonuses.
quote:
In other words, is there an advantage to constructing artificial sea lanes -- which means the map is no longer "real world" -- in order to make sure that trade cities are located on different continents separated by straits?
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If the scale of your map is small enough, wider rivers will not look too out-of-place. I would suggest the following:
Make your major rivers using ocean squares, one tile wide, and consider a similarly constructed "canal" to connect to another body of water. This will create unique landmasses for trade purposes. To maintain the normal river resource benefits, add river tiles along both edges of your "ocean-river". It won't be "perfect" real-world, but it will be close. Keep in mind that if you put ocean squares along a diagonal, it will look like a series of ponds, and that somewhat disguises your "canal".
Now, to allow both navigation *and* land unit crossing of your "ocean-river", create what I call a land/ocean intersection". Picture 4 tiles in a diamond shape (all intersecting at one point. On 2 opposite tiles, place land terrain, and on the other 2 opposite tiles, place ocean terrain. You will find that the map shows a little water line between the ocean tiles. Ships can move between the 2 ocean tiles, and land units can move between the 2 land tiles!
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Snog
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Cavebear,
I was unsure what a diplo-game was, but I just read a "diplogame faq" I found by searching the messages.
I was wondering... do you think we could have a diplogame using my new scenario which I am going to bring into the play-testing phase today or tomorrow?
There are many aspects to it which are well suited for a diplogame: a new map which I worked hard on, 7 playable civs which I worked hard to balance, and a loose basis on history, which could make the posts more interesting. Right now it's a fairly long scenario.. 200 turns covering 400 years, although one of the reasons I'm play-testing is to try to get a feel for the right length of time that it should last.
There is at least one potential problem I foresee.. there are basically two groups of civs: the three native american civs, and the 4 european civs. They start out with very different circumstances. But there's a lot of barbarian cities and special events which could certainly make the story-line more fun.
Do you think it would work? Would you like to look over the scenario to get a feel for it? Maybe it would be better to hold off until I feel it has passed the play-testing phase first. I'm not sure.
If it would work, it would certainly give me a huge amount of feedback on the scenario, and probably help me greatly to improve it.
What do you think?
--Snog
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Snog
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Well. I'm hoping to finish up the scenario today, and I can also whip up the map today, then, too. I'll try to do my best work, because I'm starting to get interested in seeing what a diplo game really is, and I'll probably try to follow the message board. So far I've just let the ideas for it develop in my head, and I haven't started laying down tiles yet.
You know, the scenario won't care if it has to wait another day before it gets play-tested. I pretty much promised I would do this for you, so I'll do the map first to make sure it gets the full treatment. It'll be a .sav file. I'll post the address for you later today or first thing tomorrow when I'm done.
What names would you like to have for the 7 starting civs? I should give them each a single settler unit and no techs. Is that correct?
--Snog
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Snog
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By the way: is it alright with you if I include features in the map which wouldn't appear on a randomly generated map; such as rivers on mountains or hills, or islands in lakes?
--Snog
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Snog
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OK, cavebear
All done. You can download the game here: http://aspen.mine.nu/civ2/diplogameA.zip
You can start it by selecting load saved multiplayer game, and then choose diplogameA.sav. It's a .sav not a .net , but it will still work.
No tribe has techs all have one settler, all are in sight of a whale, and grassland, and usually a river.
There are a couple of areas near the poles that might not be usable because of tundra, but everywhere else is good for city building.
The difficulty level is king; there are no barbarians or huts.
Since you didn't tell me names for the tribes they are all default names and city styles. If you catch me today, I can change the names and city styles for you.
--Snog
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Snog
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What city styles do you want for each?
Here is my guess:
Celts- mideval
Zulus- bronze age
Vikings- mideval
American- mideval
Aztecs- bronze age
English- mideval
Mongols- Far east
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Snog
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OK, let me make the changes, and I'll post here when its ready.
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Snog
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There's one thing which I've been pondering a bit.
I added some extra land mass last time I edited, but there's still a fairly big ocean on the map. Maybe for the type of game you are playing that extra ocean will just equate to wasted space because you can't build cities there.
In your opinion should I fill it up with land? If so, should I connect it to the land that already exists or have it separated by water? No players would start there, so it wouldn't be as if it would be isolating a player to make it a seperate continent.
I think the map should be fine as is, but this might just be a way to improve it. What do you think?
--SNog
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Snog
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Yes, I saw it.
To me, even the map I made was a land map. Not much naval activity to be had with one lake.
I guess you prefer maps where no naval units are built whatsoever. You should have made this clear.
Your map seemed very odd because although it was round, it had almost zero water. Like mars or the moon.
Look at the large version of Earth that comes with civII. The size of the oceans are greatly reduced, and the ratio about equals that of mine. I guess I was going for a map that was sort of like their version of Earth.
I would suggest using the map you gave me over and over , just get someone to change the start positions for you. I don't think you would miss anything.
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Snog on 01-19-2001 11:50 AM
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First. please allow me to reiterate how much I appreciated you taking the time to make a map for me. I know that you put effort into it, and that you care about your maps. After getting some feedback from a few pther people, I looked at it myself. It is an interesting map, and I would not hesitate to play it in a naval game. It's just that this one was meant to be a land game.
quote:
Yes, I saw it.
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I wasn't sure of that earlier, so I asked. But it (my sample) did clearly show the amount/kind of land that we were looking for.
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To me, even the map I made was a land map. Not much naval activity to be had with one lake.
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I accept the failure to descibe the desired map as mine alone. We anticipate 7 civs reaching up to 30 cities each. That takes a lot of land!
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I guess you prefer maps where no naval units are built whatsoever. You should have made this clear.
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There was certainly water on my sample map. No Pacific Ocean, to be sure, but room for navies to operate. And please don't be upset, but I did make the land/ocean ratios clear with the map I sent.
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Your map seemed very odd because although it was round, it had almost zero water. Like mars or the moon.
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Yes, but that was the game I wanted to set up. Some games are mostly naval, others are mostly land units. Some are islands, some are continents. It is not the place of the mapmaker to decide that. Meaning no disrespect, but I willingly adjust my own maps to the desires of the user.
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Look at the large version of Earth that comes with civII. The size of the oceans are greatly reduced, and the ratio about equals that of mine. I guess I was going for a map that was sort of like their version of Earth.
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Estimate the Land/Ocean squares of the Earth map and your map. You may be surprised. But I am not denigrating your map. It is a very good map, and I greatly appreciate your effort in producing it; it was just not the map I needed.
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I would suggest using the map you gave me over and over , just get someone to change the start positions for you. I don't think you would miss anything.
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Please do understand that I respect your map. When we want a naval map, I will definately use it. I have no reason to want you upset or unhappy, and I am grateful that you tried. I note that no one else even offerred to try to do the same, so your help means a lot to me.
I didn't use your map, but I really mean it when I say "thank you" anyway!
[This message has been edited by cavebear (edited January 19, 2001).]
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08-01-2001 07:50
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