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MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 15-11-2001 19:29 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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1st Apolyton Civ3 Tournament : 15-30/November/2001 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ok, here are the details


Theme: Ancients Civs
Size: Standard Map
Ocean coverage: 60%
Land form: Pangaea
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 4 billion years
Barbarians: Restless
Civilization: Babylonians
Level: Regent
Opponents: 7 (Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, Aztecs, Persians, Chinese, Zulu)

- file attached on next post
- submit your saved game on this thread. you can submit only one game (of course)
- use autosave so that you have the last turn before your win

Last edited by MarkG on 15-11-2001 at 19:49

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 15-11-2001 19:51 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

dont forget! deadline is November 30!!

Attachment: apolyton-tournament-1.zip
This has been downloaded 1865 time(s).

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:16
  Old Post 15-11-2001 20:33
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Well, a reason to play the game again.

DaBear is offline DaBear
Settler
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Nov 2001
time: 23:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 01:44
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It has a great start position. One of the best that I've seen on this difficulty setting. First run through during lunch at work and already I've got a slim advantage over all the civs...but they are starting to take an exception to that.

Ahlyis is offline Ahlyis
Settler

Nov 2001
time: 21:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 02:09
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This sounds like a lot of fun, but I want to know what is/isn't allowed.

Obviously, using mod packs should be disallowed, though it may be hard to prove whether someone did or didn't use them. But what about dirty tricks that are in the game already?

Specifically, it appears that the developers left in a 'feature', probably for playtesting purposes, that allows you to get 100,000,000 gold per turn from an AI Civ. No modification to the code is required, it is in the game as shipped.

Obviously, this would allow you to have insane scores and completely dominate the AI, but is it illegal to use since it IS part of the game?

BTW, if you want to know how to do it, read my post on the Cheats thread.

cybernev02 is offline cybernev02
Settler
New Jersey
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 03:51
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

wow... having played CIV2/3 b4 in a cheiftain level seemed not so chalanging... but this is def. a chalange... i think i'm gona stick to my current game and see if i can finish that...

btw, what do u guys this about this?

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
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time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 04:40 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Ahlyis
Obviously, this would allow you to have insane scores and completely dominate the AI, but is it illegal to use since it IS part of the game?
i think it's kind of obvious that such use of bugs/exploits are illegal

now how to prevent this from happening? i cant say i have an anwer....

HunterAssasin is offline HunterAssasin
Chieftain

Nov 2001
time: 00:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 04:58
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

easily, if they submit a save game with millions of money, it's safe to say they cheated

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 05:19
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What about lumberjacking to up your production levels a bit??

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 05:23 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by HunterAssasin
easily, if they submit a save game with millions of money, it's safe to say they cheated
perhaps one could spend them on way or the other

eitherway, the saved games will be availiable online for everyone to check....

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 05:24 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
What about lumberjacking to up your production levels a bit??
i dont see any problem with that

it's part of the game

HunterAssasin is offline HunterAssasin
Chieftain

Nov 2001
time: 00:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 06:03
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Whew I'm up to like 20AD so far, I never played regent before, just started to get into warlord, so it's pretty hard for me but I'm hanging in there with a slight tech lead, but my score is one of the worst Anyway I doubt I'll win I'm just in this for the fun

Ahlyis is offline Ahlyis
Settler

Nov 2001
time: 21:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 06:16
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Actually, it's really easy to get rid of the money. Just give it to another Civ 2 turns before you win. Then submit the save game from one turn before you win. Your saved game will show a huge score since score is based on an average over the whole game, but you will only have a normal amount of money on the saved game.

The only way I can think of to possibly spot someone who did this would be to watch the quick replay at the end and look for something obviously wrong, like a whole bunch of cities suddenly coming over to them. But even that could be gotten around by only buying an AI city if it is on your borders and only doing it every 10 turns or so. Since money doesn't directly affect your score or power (as far as I am aware) simply looking at the histograph probably won't be sufficient.

Honestly, I don't plan to use this tactic, but I can't see how to tell if someone does.
-------------
On a different note. Is it considered cheating/unfair play to attack, reload if you don't like the outcome, then wait a turn or attack with different units? If so, how in the world do you plan to police THAT?!?!

I think the idea of a contest is good, but I can't see how you could prevent even minor cheaters, let alone those who hack the save files.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 06:27 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ahlyis
On a different note. Is it considered cheating/unfair play to attack, reload if you don't like the outcome, then wait a turn or attack with different units? If so, how in the world do you plan to police THAT?!?!
it's quite obvious that we cant. btw, you cant change the outcome of battle by reloading

quote:
I think the idea of a contest is good, but I can't see how you could prevent even minor cheaters, let alone those who hack the save files.
in the end, the point is to have fun participating. if someone chooses to act like an idiot....

Elrad is offline Elrad
Settler

Nov 2001
time: 05:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 10:23
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File size too large? Got spare money?

With all the potential for cheating aside, I've noticed another problem.

Most save files get larger based on how far into the game you are, and how large the map is...A tiny map finished in 100bc (with almost all cities in the pop 1-3 range) I sized at 600k, most end games I think are 2 megs and up....isnt the upload limit 500k?

How will we upload our save files? or is there something that I am missing? (if so, please save me some dignity and point it out right away!)

-Elrad

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 11:22
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Zip them. They will lose 90-95% of their size.

Dark Horseman is offline Dark Horseman
Settler
Davis, CA
Nov 2001
time: 21:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 11:30
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quote:
How will we upload our save files? or is there something that I am missing? (if so, please save me some dignity and point it out right away!)


You can always zip the files to compress the sizes. Still that may not solve the problems of a 2 MB saved game. For further compression, zips can compress into .rar files.
Here's a free download for WinRAR.
WinRAR


Mark G will have to approve uploading .rar files to the site though. Rar files are definately not as popular are well known as zips, but if the upload max is indeed 500k, then our last option may be to upload the files to a FTP.

I'm sure Mark will know what to do.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
King
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 12:13 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Yep, I'm playing this tournament...started it tonight. I'm up to about 500 AD or so...my score is hovering around 600, with the Greeks slightly behind me, but my culture is double the Greeks and anywhere from 5-10 times everyone else's...oughta be absorbing a bunch of cities soon...

I've got about 10 or 11 base cities, and then a few that I have absorbed culturally. I started out way behind in the tech race because I went big time expansion + workers, but that's OK because I outexpanded most of the AIs in the beginning, then while they were catching up I was researching. At this point I'm slightly ahead in tech - I'd be a lot more than slightly ahead, except that I'm making a pretty penny in both gold and luxuries by selling my techs around the board.

My one bad spot though is that I have only 2 wonders, computer has the rest so far...that's OK though, I should be able to get most of the rest I want because of my nice city base (half my core cities are at size 12, the rest are getting real close).

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 12:29 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Horseman
Mark G will have to approve uploading .rar files to the site though.
you probably didnt notice that rar files are already allowed

Dev is offline Dev
Warlord

Nov 2001
time: 05:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 13:40
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Very nice starting position.

So far I've suceeded in moving settlers in the wrong direction , getting civil disorders because "I will check that city next turn" and several other mindless minor ****ups but I guess that's what happens when you try to play Civ after a 16 hour work day, late Civ session the night before and not enough sleep in general ~

Still, I'm sligthly ahead in tech and at par expansionwise with the dominant AI (Germans) at some 8 or 9 towns each.

I was very lucky with scouting/huts, getting Math and Philosophy from huts halfway across the world

oh and anybody moving their initial city spot one tile to the **** can be written off as save game whores

I'm looking forward to see how other people play this scenario


/dev

Auk is offline Auk
Chieftain
UK
Apr 1999
time: 05:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 15:07
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Remove this text

or as "reading the forums and taking good advice" whores :-) guess I've got a one in two chance of getting it right...

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 15:49
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pherhaps we should wait with this tournament untill:

1. the patch made the 10,000,000 bug absolute
2. the europeans have more experience so that top-10 won't be dominated by yankees.

Zealot is offline Zealot
King
Lisboa, Portugal
Jun 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 16:01
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Just downloaded it. I didn't finish my first game, since I can only play at work ( my PC at home doesn't support 1024x768, blablabla), so I can't be sure that I can finish it by the 30th of November.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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  Old Post 16-11-2001 16:03 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
2. the europeans have more experience so that top-10 won't be dominated by yankees.
let them be happy about their abilities for the first tournament
then the eurocoms will take over

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 16:23
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quote:
let them be happy about their abilities for the first tournament
then the eurocoms will take over


nah, the evil warez-eurocoms will beat them immediately !

Not to speak about those guys that spend years of their live to create a website that came close connected with Firaxis so they could starting the blatant @ss kissing and got their copy for that reason immediately after it's USA release (or pherhaps even before it )

ChrisShaffer is offline ChrisShaffer
Prince
Iowa City, Iowa, United States of America
Aug 1999
time: 23:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 17:25 Visit ChrisShaffer's homepage!
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Are you considering multiple awards? CivFanatics "Game of the Month" are discussing declaring a winner for each of the victory conditions. The idea being that the point system might favor, for example, a culture victory over a military victory. Say it turns out that spaceships are the best way to score points in Civ3. If everyone becomes aware that fact, and the only consideration for winning the tournament is points, then that takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 17:39 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisShaffer
a winner for each of the victory conditions
well, we'll determine this according to the submitted games

for example if we get 30 submissions, it will be a pity to name just one winner.

remconius is offline remconius
Settler

Nov 2001
time: 06:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
pherhaps we should wait with this tournament untill:

1. the patch made the 10,000,000 bug absolute
2. the europeans have more experience so that top-10 won't be dominated by yankees.


well.... Let's have a new challenge after this tournament when the patch arrives. This is not the only tournament I suppose.

I hope the modding can be checked, cause that would blow the purpose...

On online environment like Diablo II would be excellent where you could play your tournament game. Perhaps they should set up with a battle.net or Gamespy.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Jan 1970
time: 07:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 18:19 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by remconius
This is not the only tournament I suppose.
of course, this is only the beggining

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 16-11-2001 19:56
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quote:
of course, this is only the beggining



prepare yourself !
Apolyton tournaments untill you DIE !
My game is doing great. It's 'only' regent level (while I play Emperor in other games) and it's really a peace of cake

Do you participate yourself as well Markos....?
Or only if you win

 
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