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adaMada
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"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:16
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ok, this thread is disapointing me now.
Not less than an hour ago, I was on here posting how awsome it was to see a thread which WASN'T purely people who hated the game slamming everyone and everything, with people shooting back with more slamming and making everyone enjoy apolyton less. Instead, we had a thread that made light of all of the slamming going on! What wonder...
Suddenly, this thread becomes nasty too.
Please, people! Let's try to stay civil, shall we? Also, while we're at it, why don't we all try listining to what everyone else is saying? Also, not getting so angry, and trying to keep this to friendly discussion... somehow, I think we'd all be happier if it didn't feel like a civil war here. Personally, this is decreasing my enjoyment of apolyton, and that's sad.
-- adaMada
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yavoon
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n.c. it only hurts because like all good sarcasm, it has the ring of truth.
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Ancientfool
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Yeah, HEY, lets build a strawman version of legitmate complaints about the game, gloss over substantive criticism and pretend the world is *really* flat. Good work, happy happy joy joy.
The game really does need some tweaking, though a few patches and an editor will hopefully fix most issues. Thats it. No "Gawd-this-is-the-best-ever" joygasms or "Ill-take-it-back-and-sue-firaxis" drivel.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:16
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 I do care, my friend. And I believe that you are taking this entire thread out of context.
I poked fun at only one side, because it was the side that seemed most prevelant here on the boards as I was browsing (admittedly, that was not a scientific determination....I didn't stop to count them or anything)
And yes, I have said (in the initial post, in fact) that there are valid concerns about the game. Comparisons with Civ2 are unavoidable, but there are people posting who sound an awful lot like the crux of their complaints are that the strategies they are comfortable with FROM Civ2 don't work anymore.
The things you quoted from me (sure, I'll take the title of Whiner for things that are weak points in the game)....the difference here is that Colonies and the implementation of culture have nothing to do with my Civ2 strategies, since they obviously didn't exist in Civ2).
No hard feelings tho....again, most folks simply took the thread for what it was, and had a good chuckle. Another of those fairly rare instances where we happen not to see eye to eye, that's all.
-=Vel=-
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yavoon
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I definitely did not miss my mark n.c.. and for future reference, just because you say something, doesn't make it so.
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Zylka
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
and I get the impression that Zylka hates the fact that I like the game.
I get the impression that he wants everyone to hate civ3 as much as he does
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Why in the hell are you addressing me, MIST@R SPIRIT WALKl3R?? I'm not trying to have others hate the game, I'm telling them that we have a right to complain to have all of the twisted aspects fixed, and I'm justifying why each and every one of these aspects should be changed.
quote:
take a look at my screen name. I am not like others. I can care less if I lose 1 of my tanks to a pikeman. I just build another. I think some of you wimps are crying when your tank loses to a pikeman. just build another freakin' tank That will be my motto from now on. I may put it in my signiture.
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Yes, good. You are not like the others, U R UBER SPIRIT WALK3R GURU CIV3, who can overlook all of the flaws of this game and "just build another one". It applies so well to everything. And oh yes, you sure surmised my complaints well in the above. The fact that I lost a single tank to a pikeman is obviously the very embodyment of the whole argument simplified, you are so F*CKING BRILLIANT IT DEFIES IMAGINATION. Note sarcasm, champ.
You people... you oversimplify and mischaracterize our complaints in the most blatantly stupid ways possible. That's all you have for your argument, to ignore every valid complaint and address parody/fantasy complaints because I R LOVE GAME NO NEED 4 CHANGE U GUYS IS PUSSIES
Fine, have fun. It really is in vain to logically destroy your pathetic & unfounded responses time and again - because the only ones who listen are those smart enough to have already figured it out themselves.
This game is fun.
This game is challenging enough.
Nothing needs to be changed.
No one needs to complain.
You're a ***** if you complain.
Yet will I download the patch that the b*tchers are pushing?
You obviously win.
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Scary Penguin
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1) Civ 3 is much more playable than SMAC/Civ 2. The computer can give me a much more challenging game at levels less than diety without it seeming unfair. I get much further into the game before I get the feeling that the game is basically over. Civ 3's AI, while still quite stupid, is far and away the best of the series. Corruption and the strength of ancient vs modern units are both good things, because they make the game more playable, even once someone takes a lead in tech or number of cities.
2) SMAC had the best interface of any of the games. Civ 3's interface is actually worse than Civ 2's and much worse than SMAC's. Everything from control-q for retire to the stupid radio buttons is a step backwards. Also, I miss the wonder movies from SMAC.
3) The diplomatic win is so goofy that I can't believe they left it in the game. I would have disabled it until the next patch, just to save embarassment.
With all that said, I think #1 actually wins out over 2 and 3, and suspect I won't go back to playing SMAC over Civ 3.
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Zurai001
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonidas
3) Contrary to what some people have been led to believe, the AI cheats at every level of the game. I have played a number of games on the first three levels (where the AI, supposedly, doesn't cheat), and have encountered it many, many times.
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Actually, the only cheats I've noticed is a cheat I've seen in every single game with a map: The AI knows the map from the start of the game.
quote:
Just four examples:
A) Playing on Chieftan (yeah, I know), I was bombarding a city. I destroyed a road, yet, on the next turn, it was built again. Has anyone ever had a single worker build a road in just one turn? But worse than that - on the very next turn - the AI had built a railroad - again - with only the same worker. I destroy those buggers on each turn - but they are re-built on the very next turn.
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Actually yes, I have built roads in one turn, and railroads and irrigation and mines too - all with one worker. It's called an industrious civ under democracy with replaceable parts.
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B) On Regent level, I had a settler and archer trapped - they were the last units left of a Civ. After I had declared war on that civ, and after I left the diplomacy screen, that settler and archer jumped into the air and landed 10 tiles away. I kid you not. When faced with extinction, the AI can pull off some dramatic events. . . (
Or, I could use my imagination and believe that in 1600 AD, that settler and archer had invented a springboard and parachute, and then with superhuman skill miracluously escaped 
C) On Regent level, the AI almost always seems to "know" when its cities will fall to another culture. How do I know? Just before it reverts, you will see that city dwindle to maybe a 2 or 1 pop city before you take it over. However, the human player is given no such warning. . .
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Or maybe they just started building lots of workers from there, as part of the normal AI functions. I've personally grabbed size 12 cities from culture before.
quote:
D) The AI also always knows where you are the weakest, and what units you have in your cities.
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This I acknowledge. The AI knows the map in its entirety, including resources.
quote:
4) The game is filled with bugs. While most of the core game is good and playable, it was still rushed out the door, and it shows:
* Broken scenario/map editors. Even the user made maps available for download tend to screw up the tech tree. Sloppy programming? But let's pretend they work.
* No multiplayer - but I'll use my imagination and pretend it exists
* Air superiority and coastal fortess don't work as advertised. I have yet to get the regular fortress to work the way it should, although the AI has no such handicap.
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Actually, I have seen regular forts work. The thing is, ZOC is only a 50% chance of triggering, and it doesn't show the attack if it fails to damage the unit, so it seems a lot less.
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yavoon
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just because all the people seem to be for some change, almost as appeasement to the onslaughts of the whiners.
I might add that, I see no need to change any part of the combat system. it adds depth and balance to gameplay, at the cost of realism. this is strategy game, not simulation.
I find no need to change corruption. it forces the question is bigger better, and where you can build cities. obviously one of the gripes eternally on strategy games like this is, because of reality, bigger is almost always better.
I really am happy about the strategic aspects of the game, and am only in need of obvious bugs, like interceptors not intercepting.
its worth mentioning too, that n.c. is one of the cuter characters I've seen in a while. everytime he talks, he talks w/ the authority of god, the conviction of lucifer, but the finesse of a bowling ball.
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Zylka
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quote:
Originally posted by yavoon
just because all the people seem to be for some change, almost as appeasement to the onslaughts of the whiners.
I might add that, I see no need to change any part of the combat system. it adds depth and balance to gameplay, at the cost of realism. this is strategy game, not simulation.
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Realism is the acme of depth and just balance. NO ONE can argue with that.
quote:
I find no need to change corruption. it forces the question is bigger better, and where you can build cities. obviously one of the gripes eternally on strategy games like this is, because of reality, bigger is almost always better.
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You find no need to change corruption?? It doesn't even work according to the way the designers intended it too, let alone realistically. Governments do not lessen corruption as they should, nor do courthouses. The current corruption model is only fit for despotism. When they fix corruption in the patch, what will you then say?
quote:
its worth mentioning too, that n.c. is one of the cuter characters I've seen in a while. everytime he talks, he talks w/ the authority of god, the conviction of lucifer, but the finesse of a bowling ball. |
Funny, then you must consider tact to consist of lying and brazen misinterpretation. Considering we're in the same camp, N.C. is being rather gentle with the lot of you. I'm sorry I don't have the same sympathy for your "type" 
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yavoon
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u are worse than politicians, I get called lying for a post consisted entirely of me giving my opinion. no wonder you have to keep posting to defend yourself, you need some real defending.
if they release a patch, i will play that. I am in this for the strategy, and the empire building "feeling" not for a simulation of warfare, or of democracy. cuz to ask for nething else would be hypocritical as a real simulation would be no fun wutsoever. ur harping on points that are moot in civ3's world. like vel sed, its not civ2, and u hate that. somewhere along the line realism and "its not like civ2" became synonymous.
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16-11-2001 04:49
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