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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Roman
If the 0.3% statistic is right and it is given to 30 million people each year, that would make 9,000 death from the vaccine each year. If immunisation were made compulsory for the nearly 300 million people in the US, that would bring the numbers up to 90,000. That is not an insignificant number. |
Since those numbers of people are not dying from the vaccine or getting an immunodeficiency response, obviously Faded's statistics are in error.
quote:
Flu is only an inconvenience unless one is either in a weakened state (such as soldiers after WW I), or one belongs to a vulnerable group of people. |
The flu kills children, the elderly, and people who are already sick. The Swine flu of 1918, however, mostly killed healthy people in the prime of life. In America, half a million people died from it, and while it first started in an amry barracks, these were men who had not seen combat and were not in a weakened state.
quote:
Originally posted by Faded Glory
You are creating an epidemic in the making. Each time you get a flu shot your body becomes immune to that strain. The strains eventually warp and get more sophisticated as each year goes by. Eventually when you do get the flu again, it will many fold worse than what it was the first time you got it. So you Che are the only fool here.... Eventually 30 years down the road...they wont be able to make a vaccine for it. |
Virii don't work that way. Influenza changes constantly, which is why new vaccines are needed each year. Some years it is a mild, cold like flu, some years a serious illness, and every so often, it is a killer plague.
BTW, you are confusing bacterial and viral immunity. Bacteria can adapt to antibiotics and pass this immunity on to non-related bacteria. Virii are not known to either, since they don't actually live. They are simply replicating bits of code, and the changes in their RNA happens not in their viral stage but in the replication stage, which occurs in the living host cell. Since, in the case of a vaccinated person, there is no host cell, the virus cannot change since it cannot replicate.
quote:
I also take issue with Anti-Bacterial soap. |
In this, I agree with you. The diference here is that the anti-biotics are affecting living cells which are capable of self-replication. Hence, any immunities they develop can be passed on immediately. Also, through bacterial sex, harmless and healthy bacteria which live on our skin and in our guts can pass on these immunities to harmful bateria, such as tuberculosis.
Fortunately, it seems that resistant bacteria can't reproduce as quickly as non-resistant, so staying away from unnecessary antibitoics helps defeat resistant strains.
BTW, Faded, do you only eat organic animal products? If not, you are getting doses of antibiotics in your meat, milk, cheese, eggs, etc.
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Roman
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Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Since those numbers of people are not dying from the vaccine or getting an immunodeficiency response, obviously Faded's statistics are in error.
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Fair enough, I cannot judge, since I have no access to any statistics on the matter.
quote:
The flu kills children, the elderly, and people who are already sick. The Swine flu of 1918, however, mostly killed healthy people in the prime of life. In America, half a million people died from it, and while it first started in an amry barracks, these were men who had not seen combat and were not in a weakened state.
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Children, the elderly and the sick are obviously vulnerable target groups and should be given the vaccine. The people who died from the flu in 1918 were in a weakened state of one form or another. Remember that malnourishment was widespread at the time.
quote:
Virii don't work that way. Influenza changes constantly, which is why new vaccines are needed each year. Some years it is a mild, cold like flu, some years a serious illness, and every so often, it is a killer plague.
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Certainly true.
quote:
BTW, you are confusing bacterial and viral immunity. Bacteria can adapt to antibiotics and pass this immunity on to non-related bacteria. Virii are not known to either, since they don't actually live. They are simply replicating bits of code, and the changes in their RNA happens not in their viral stage but in the replication stage, which occurs in the living host cell. Since, in the case of a vaccinated person, there is no host cell, the virus cannot change since it cannot replicate.
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Well, I agree with most of the above, but to my knowledge the host cells don't disapear. 
quote:
In this, I agree with you. The diference here is that the anti-biotics are affecting living cells which are capable of self-replication. Hence, any immunities they develop can be passed on immediately. Also, through bacterial sex, harmless and healthy bacteria which live on our skin and in our guts can pass on these immunities to harmful bateria, such as tuberculosis.
Fortunately, it seems that resistant bacteria can't reproduce as quickly as non-resistant, so staying away from unnecessary antibitoics helps defeat resistant strains.
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Is the slower rate of reproduction of the resistant bacteria due to the extra expenditure of energy on the production of enzymes to break down the antibiotic?
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Roman
Children, the elderly and the sick are obviously vulnerable target groups and should be given the vaccine. The people who died from the flu in 1918 were in a weakened state of one form or another. Remember that malnourishment was widespread at the time. |
Not in the United States or in other countries not greatly effected by the war. War rationing wasn't very sever in the US, and the people who died here were mostly healthy young adults. This is one of the great mysteries of the 1918 flu. We lost half a million people in six months, not just in the cities (where it was worst and brought New York and Philedelphia to virtual standtills) but in the countrysides, the small towns, even in remote Alaskan villages (where the virus survives in frozen buried bodies, alowing researchers to study it).
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quote:
Well, I agree with most of the above, but to my knowledge the host cells don't disapear. |
I should hope not, since in my case, I am the host cells, or rather, my lungs are. If the virii are prevented from attaching themselves to my lung cells, then they cannot turn those cells into virii factories. That's the whole point of the vaccine, to get your body to recognize that the virii are invading proteins, and to destroy them quickly before they have a chance to do much or any damage.
quote:
Is the slower rate of reproduction of the resistant bacteria due to the extra expenditure of energy on the production of enzymes to break down the antibiotic? |
You would be correct.  That's pretty smart.
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Roman
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Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Not in the United States or in other countries not greatly effected by the war. War rationing wasn't very sever in the US, and the people who died here were mostly healthy young adults. This is one of the great mysteries of the 1918 flu. We lost half a million people in six months, not just in the cities (where it was worst and brought New York and Philedelphia to virtual standtills) but in the countrysides, the small towns, even in remote Alaskan villages (where the virus survives in frozen buried bodies, alowing researchers to study it).
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That sounds mysterious indeed. Was this just a one of occurence, or did this happen with the other flu epidemics too?
quote:
I should hope not, since in my case, I am the host cells, or rather, my lungs are. If the virii are prevented from attaching themselves to my lung cells, then they cannot turn those cells into virii factories. That's the whole point of the vaccine, to get your body to recognize that the virii are invading proteins, and to destroy them quickly before they have a chance to do much or any damage.
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Lol,  never mind, I just misunderstood your previous post on this. I thought you were suggesting that the vaccine kills off the host cells (ie. your lungs), so I could not understand how one could still carry on breathing. Sorry, just confused by the language.
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spartak
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Gasmaske: the bull sh!t is going both ways here. Apparently, living in a country does little for your knowledge about it. It makes you think you know things that just ain't so. |
Have you not noticed my total silence on the subject?
After all i only lived in Russia for five years, including before and after the devaluation of the rouble. And I know I don't know **** about the place.
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19-11-2001 02:09
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