15-11-2001 23:00									#1
	Intensely Annoying AI Navies Enter the AD-FREE zone

Isn't bombardment just the pits? Even feeble AI navies can run around your coast blowing up your precious improvements. If you play an islands map with narrow isthmuses, the AI's demolition forces can occasionally sever very important railway links at unfortunate times.

I'm used to not having to worry too much about navies, since the AI couldn't coordinate navies anyway and I kept my cities tolerably well garrisoned. Anyone developed good approaches to deal with swarms of low quality ships (Man-o-wars, ironclads especially) buzzing around the coast wrecking improvements?

I hate wasting effort on a navy. Are there "good value" ships to protect coasts with? Perhaps ironclads?

	15-11-2001 23:17									#2
	Naval war Remove this text

Defensive:
bombard the AI ships with catapults/canons/artillery/ships
protect your own cities with ships in the nearby water squares
form blocking squadrons to control sections of ocean

Offensive:
destroy his ships
blockade his port cities
bombard his port cities until the harbors are destroyed

	16-11-2001 02:47									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Or you could try to not build too many costal cities.

	16-11-2001 03:17									#4
	Put an end to popups!

After a few failure's on regent level I quickly learned that in most situations it is imperitive to have naval superiority to the AI. Even though I had the most powerful army in the world I had neglected my navy and the AI was able to wipe out all my coastal resources and park aircraft carriers off my coast putting me quickly into a defensive and losing position. After dominating my coastlines the AI effectively was able to just plop down transports at will.

Since then I have built larger navies and the AI stopped with those tactics now that I can defend my coastline.

	16-11-2001 03:39									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Or you could try to not build too many costal cities.

Oh no. Cities aren't the problem. It's bombarding terrain improvements that's giving me trouble. I've lost one temple to naval bombardment in my current game, after many, many, many tries.

	16-11-2001 05:59									#6
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No Navy eh...couldn't imagine not having a navy. I just swarm them with Battleships.

I would suggest building a navy =)

This game thrives on support units, much like real world strategies. When the US wages war right now, we don't just send in tank after tank in hopes of destroying the enemy. We bombard with our battleships, bombs, missiles and generally hit them with everything BUT the "tank" until they are all mostly half dead. Then we roll over them.

If you don't have Land, Air and Sea based forces your going to be much weaker than those that do.

Remember, this is NOT Civ2; adjust strategies accordingly.

	16-11-2001 06:36									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yes build navies. especially if you are isolated on a continent and need to defend that continent or island (U.S. and U.K. being prime examples of this). They can be expensive compared to land units, but I feel they are worth it. If you are war with an adjacent neighbor on same continent I wouldn't bother with a navy. But in the other case I said, build ironclad until you get battleships.

like I said though, it all depends on your map and game situation

	16-11-2001 07:00									#8
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I love my battleship armadas. In one of my most recent game's i was using a fleet of 12 and a couple transport loads of marines to burn down every port city the ai had.

That'll stop them from building those invincible triremes!

bwah hah hah

	16-11-2001 07:19									#9
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Yes the only sure way in this situation is to build a navy, and a big one. Actually the AI don't build too many ships, they just use the same ships over and over again. If you keep sinking his ships, you'll find that he won't bother you as much in the future.

	16-11-2001 07:53									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

My problem is that the ai sends swarms of boats to circle around my borders every turn. If they would just stop I could have finished a full game by now! The english built 3 caravels very early one game and sent them into a lake just outside my borders. Every turn they would circle around in this lake. They couldn't go anywhere but the ai kept these units the whole game. This is bad ai. Very bad and very annoying.

	19-11-2001 09:08									#11
	History's a b****, ain't it? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Don't want to build a navy, eh? Fine. But then you will wind up like the Germans. All land and no sea = defeat. This has been true throughout history. ALMOST every single great war was one by a sea power. The main reason is that control of the sea means control of trade, and it also means that you can do things like... bombard cities and developed countryside. The AI is just using a little gunboat diplomacy. If you're not hip to the lessons of history, then you deserve to have your civ knocked out. It's a harsh lesson history teaches.

	19-11-2001 09:20									#12
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Maybe that king was just protecting his favorite fishing spot. 3 units of caravells to protect it, sounds about right if I was the king. Damn its good to be king

	13-12-2001 04:53									#13
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Build a navy.

Bombardment works against ships, so keep some artillery
around to shoot up any intruding ships, and have a ship or
two of your own handy to sink 'em.

I tend to always have a few destroyers around. They sink
lousy stuff like galleys and caravels just as easily as
battleships, and take only around half the effort to build.

	13-12-2001 05:11									#14
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Make sure you have at least one artillery unit in every city. They're surprisingly useful, as they both improve land defense (free shot against attackers, bombarding approaching units) and sea defense. You can get away with a much smaller defensive-only navy than normal if you always soften up the opposition with land-based bombardment.

	13-12-2001 05:32									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You need a decent navy to finish off his ships, but airpower and artillery can bombard them down to one point. Makes the navy's job much easier.

	13-12-2001 19:51									#16
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1. Keep enough automated workers around so they pretty much fix instantly what Ai manages to destroy.

2. Keep one unit fortified on square which improvement you can't afford to lose. Bombardment always does damge to unit first until it has 1 hp.


I mostly play on continents map and I have noticed that altough AI:s improvement bombardments are annoying they have exteremely small effect on anything.

	13-12-2001 20:16									#17
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Having a strong navy is essential for my strategies. I'll go as far as to say if I identify early on that I'm isolated on an island (no I'm not one of those people that restarts when they see they don't have the most perfect starting location), I'll develop scientifically heading toward the navy advances like navigation, etc. This way I can dominate on the seas and hopefully build the navy wonders in an attempt to assure this dominance.

Plus, when at war, having plenty of ships (both attacking and defending) goes a long way by just wreaking havoc on the enemies' coastal cities. My current game, while I was putting an army together, my navy was busy bombarding the Japanese coast, severing crucial luxary and strategic resources. It wasn't long before 3 or 4 nearby cities were smoking in disorder

	13-12-2001 21:06									#18
	Re: History's a b****, ain't it? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Don't want to build a navy, eh? Fine. But then you will wind up like the Germans. All land and no sea = defeat. This has been true throughout history. ALMOST every single great war was one by a sea power. The main reason is that control of the sea means control of trade, and it also means that you can do things like... bombard cities and developed countryside. The AI is just using a little gunboat diplomacy. If you're not hip to the lessons of history, then you deserve to have your civ knocked out. It's a harsh lesson history teaches.

I thought the French proved that, the Germans just faild to heed the lesson (and the other one about fighting winter wars in Russia)

	14-12-2001 00:47									#19
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The Germans had good navies in both wars, but their opponents were better. Germany couldn't hope to be both a land power capable of taking on Russia and the western allies, and still have the best navy. Not enough production or resources.

	14-12-2001 01:19									#20
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If you REALLY don't want to build a navy then you can make do with land units. Keep a couple ancient catapults (or cannons if you have some extras) close to the areas that get hit by the naval artillery. When the navy drops by, rush in your catapults and fire back.

Also, keep some workers close at hand to repair the damage. This can actually work out in your favor as early naval units do not hit their target very often and the more modern units are way expensive.

If you can either tie up an older naval unit for several turns or simply repair the damage from a battleship in a turn or two, then you have made the AI waste a precious resource (time, in the case of the older units, and shields, in the case of the modern units).

In the end though, if you want to stop the bombardment you are going to have to build a navy of your own. Even just a few ironclads can do the job.

	14-12-2001 01:21									#21
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Bombarding the enemy's ships, as someone else suggested, works rather well (until you can build your own ships to sink his). Artillery in particular does bad things to enemy ships. If you hurt his ships, they will run away to heal.

Battleship armadas are definitely fun. In a recent game, I was cranking them out like crazy to support my attacks on two AI island continents (carried out by Modern Armor). I looked at my military advisor screen during the war and realized I had something like 45 Battleships (Normal Map... not too shabby). Whenever the AI built a ship (usually a battleship or sub) it died rather quickly. Their coastal cities never had a chance.

-Arrian

	14-12-2001 01:34									#22
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destroy them

'nuff said

	14-12-2001 03:09									#23
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Like everyone else is saying, build the navy.

I admit I've gotten away w/o building one until I have destroyers, and this is on Monarch and Emperor games. Once I have destroyer/battleship capability I usually make enough to be able to watch my coasts. I'll make a battleship for every 2 destroyers. I string them out so that their "line of sights" are lined up in a contiguous manner around the coasts. That way you'll see any AI ship, including those transports w/ escorts trying to sneak through to your coasts and land units on your shores. If you have enough to have this "screen" around your coasts, your navy is usually big enough.

Once I get Intell Agency up I look to see AI navies on Military screen. If mine's small, I'll usually build up to at least parity w/ the strongest AI navy. This will minimize damage from bombardment as they'll have to contend w/ your ships before striking your coasts.

e

	14-12-2001 03:16									#24
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Dissident destroy them 'nuff said

I usually just station bombers wherever they are bombarding my coast. I find that naval battles are too unpredictable for me to waste resources building a lot of battleships. It's much easier just to bombard whatever units they throw at you since they'll have to spend a good amount of time returning to port, healing, and then coming back again. Especially since you can move bombers around your empire a heck of a lot faster than those slow, slow ships.

	14-12-2001 05:24									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

For those narrow single roads that need to be protected ... build a fort and sentry a unit there... The ships will bombard, but it only affects the unit, not the improvements... They'll have to land troops to capture the fort.


Zeb

	14-12-2001 05:54									#26
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I agree that Navies are not worth the cost unless you are playing on map full of water. All of the things mention work fine. Mainly repair the damage is not problem untill you can strop it. I like art and bombers to make them back up until I can get my few BB in play. Since I have the ships at 1 HP any small fleet will do. It just takes to long to get ships anywhere.