16-11-2001 06:27									#1
	How many leaders have you had appear in a game? Get a bigger avatar today!

I have yet to have more than 1 leader appear in a game- although I have only played 2 games into the modern age.

I almost always play the aztecs- eventually I'll get around to the french since everyone thinks they are so great. But I like indian culture, what can I say. They have military atribute which should increase leaders appearing.

maybe I just have bad luck.

I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to organize my strategy around this. I usually use my 1 leader to rush the forbidden palace, because it is so important for me. But I miss out on military acedemy, pentagon and armies.

	16-11-2001 06:43									#2
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Highest I got was 2 with the Japanese because of thier military attribute, other then that I'm lucky if I see one and I do go to war a lot. Also I have only seen one AI civ in every game I played get an army, is their a way to increase the odds to spawn great leaders?

	16-11-2001 06:52									#3
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Playing on Regent, standard map, 8 civs. Adopted the peaceful development approach, and only fought one war in the entire game.

Got 5 leaders.

That one war was the "final struggle" for domination of the world and I fought against the fresh armies of a grand alliance of 7 AI nations at the same time. Took me like an hour to finish a turn, moving hundreds of units around and usually attacked by no fewer than 30-40 AI land units and 10 AI ships per turn. 2 leaders were from defending but they were killed before my turn

	16-11-2001 06:52									#4
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Oh and my civ was religious and commercial.

	16-11-2001 07:02									#5
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Once as the persians i got two in one game. Both during the ancient era. But then I had a simply massive number of immortals moving against my enemies at the time.

On the other hand my babylonian empire didn't get any in my last game.

	16-11-2001 07:07									#6
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honest answers please.

have you guys really had more than 4? If so, give me some details .

OK I read the response for the 5 leaders.

interesting. I wonder if the odds go up in modern warfare. almost all of my warfare is stone age (or that second age- middle age? ).

	16-11-2001 08:06									#7
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The war was fought in the late industrial age/modern age. No war ever existed on that game so everybody have been building up hundreds of units for the entire game without ever using them. Also, everybody got nationalism and the AI ruthlessly drafted lots of infantry, further increasing the unit count. Another thing is, I tuned down corruption a bit in the rules editor so everybody got tons of shields to build units. It was just extremely intense action with hundreds of units tearing each other apart. Oh and everybody has more or less the same tech level.

	16-11-2001 08:42									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

2 words for you guys...

Heroic Epic

Once built (after your army wins a battle you can build it) it increases your chances of getting a leader. It took me a long time to get my first leader. Once I did, i built an army and went to battle. After that, I was able to build the military academy and heroic epic. Once the epic was built, I started getting leaders. I just sent my third one to rush build a wonder...and I am only in the early 1900's. Still alot of fighting to do

Hope this helps...

	16-11-2001 10:11									#9
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I got two very quickly in a very short game with the Romans. I was playtesting mainly, built up and attacked like crazy. Ended up being swarmed by 3 civs. Leaders died.

They are too rare for me. I haven't gotten any leaders in any other game.

	16-11-2001 10:35									#10
	13 in a Bully Little War Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have actually achieved 13 leaders (Washington appeared after Patton, and I had 2 General Lee's; kinda neat) ina a single game. It was a Regeant-level game with 16 civs on a huge Pangea map. by the time most civs had hit the industrial age, I had assimilated the Persians, Germans, and was taking my time moping-up the last of th Zulu resistance. All of a sudden, I had the Iroquis and Chinese (the 2nd and 3rd most powerful civs at the time) form a powerful coalition and invade the farthest reaches of the empire with literally hundreds of mounted warriors, riders, and cavelrymen. I had defensive superiority thanks to my needing many units to quell resistance in my newly-conquered cities and as such was able to adopt a Soviet-inspired "land for time" strategem to actually build a sizable army (mine was severly weakened due to centuries of war) to move via rail from one end of the super-continant to the other. In this, I only lost a hand full of cities before my new troops arrived in a steady stream; and I can tell you, my regular riflemen advanced to veteren and elite very quickly fending off the hordes of troops. Consequently in the hundreds of battles, a few leaders arose and after building Hero's Epic, I was gaining a new leader approx. every 3 turns. It really was a matter of massive engagements and my elite units survive constant combat to do the trick.

	16-11-2001 10:45									#11
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wow, maybe I need to build heroic epic.

my main fear was not getting any more leaders- because I need one for forbidden palace.

but if I build the heroic epic, it seems highly likely I will get another leader to finish forbidden palace.

	16-11-2001 11:25									#12
	Armies are nice but limited... Tired of ads?

Armies are nice, but almost never appear in the kind of numbers that can turn the tide in a serious war. I really only use them as shock troops to clear off well-entrenched enemies that I would normally waste 4 or 5 troops in order to clear. They sort of form 1 unit with a crap--load of HP, allowing you to duke it out with that fortified infantry-man in a mountain fortress who is guarding the only road through the mountain range; an army with 4 (after the Pentagon) Cavelryman or tanks is more cost-effiecient, it seems, than 4 single units. On the other hand, leaders can effectively build that Forbiddeon Palace quickely enough to be effective. I usually don't bother to build it until well after the war is over: there is no use lowering corruption if 'your' citizens are in resistance.

The only reason it seems that I gain leaders as often as I do is that the current system matches my game-strategem well. I normally fight wars as 'all-or-nothing' affairs involving massive troop formations and 'centuries' of preparation. I never fight a war unless I know I will win itl and that usually involves numerical and logistical superiority much more than technological superiority.

	16-11-2001 13:33									#13
	Re: Armies are nice but limited... Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by N. Machiavelli On the other hand, leaders can effectively build that Forbiddeon Palace quickely enough to be effective. I usually don't bother to build it until well after the war is over: there is no use lowering corruption if 'your' citizens are in resistance.

very true. I've often lost a city which I rush built a forbidden palace with a great leader - only to loose the city to culture, i.e. the city was overthrown and the residents joined another culture.

Take this as advice, often enough when having a leader you will feel rushed to get that wonder immediately built, and usually the forbidden palace (FB) seems the most likeable... Just wait and make sure that the city housing the FB has enough culture, no resistance! no enemy and no high culture surrounding it.

	16-11-2001 16:38									#14
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I got 3 leaders in 10 turns playing as the french while crushing the english.

	16-11-2001 17:34									#15
	4 and counting Remove this text

I've already had 4 leaders as the Chinese (with no Heroic Epic) and it is still the age of Swordsmen and Archers (1190 AD) on Regent level. Interestingly enough, 3 out of the 4 came from capturing enemy capitals with my elite troops. So I definitely believe that there must be something to that and will continue to make sure that elite troops capture emeny capitals! The continent I am on was occupied by the now dead Indians and the soon to be dead Japanese (and recently the Germans have arrived in two tiny cities). Unfortunately, the other civs in the game that are not on my island are a little ahead in tech due to my warmongering. I already built the Forbidden City in the former Indian lands with one leader, moved my Palace down towards the Japanese with the other leader, rushed the Sistine Chapel with the third, and once the Japanese are toast, I'll relocate my capital a last time to optimize production on my own little continent and race to catch up in culture/tech. I don't miss caravan hoarding at all!!!

	16-11-2001 17:56									#16
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I never had a leader (10 Games: 5 as germans, 5 as americans, regent-level).

What's the trick to get one (or more) leader(s) ?
Yes, winning fights, but i won hundreds of fights without receiving a leader.

htg

ps: sorry, for broken english

	16-11-2001 18:04									#17
	3 but 2 died Remove this text

I had never gotten more than one a game...

But then playing on regent as the Iriquois I got embroiled in a giant war vs the Aztecs that lasted 100 turns.

It is so frustrating to have a stack of 3 armor and forgetting to station an infantry with them... watch the AI throw 20 cavalry at them.... watch the armor go elite.. have them die one by one.. then the last one left spawns a leader... only to have the AI destroy it and the leader in its next move.

And I had it happen twice about 5 turns apart.

I did eventually get another leader that I held onto. Wanted to rush SETI, but being mobilized for war I couldn't start the wonder. So I had to wait like 30 turns until the Aztecs were finally gone before I could use him.

	16-11-2001 18:37									#18
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I had 5 leaders on a recent game playing the Romans to a domination victory (regeant, standard size planet). I got lucky and had two early leaders (elite legions rule!!!). After the heroic epic was built I had 3 more spawn, 2 from Cavalry units, and the last was a brave young tank comander named Lucius......