23-01-2001 23:09									#1
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I just discovered that if you set a terrains movement cost to 0 it wont cost movement points to pass it.
Im not sure what it could be used for, except if you want two sorts of railroads.
There is one difference to railroad however:
Regardless of which terrain the moving unit is standing on it will not cost it any movement to move into this terrain, but if he moves out to another terrain movement will cost as usual.
I'm not even sure that this is new discovery (though I haven't read about it annywhere).

	23-01-2001 23:34									#2
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Well done!

Does this work for ocean and water units as well?

What about air units?

EDIT: Also what happens if there is road/RR and/or river present on such a terrain?

[This message has been edited by CyberChrist (edited January 23, 2001).]

	24-01-2001 00:04									#3
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Oh I didnt say that?
Sea units are unaffected (that was one of the first things I checked), although I haven't tested it I think that air units does ignore all terrain movement rates.
One thing that does come to my mind is this:
The treat all as road flag will probably still work meaning that an "alpine" unit will go slower than a normal one on this sort of terrain.

	24-01-2001 10:16									#4
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No, this isn't really a discovery, it's pretty much common knowledge (or at least I assumed it to be). Nice try, though.

	24-01-2001 12:17									#5
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It's possible to use 0 movement on land terrain, but not sea terrain, which is too bad because it ruins any chance of creating a "hyperspace" terrain for sci-fi games. Air units also pay one MF per square of movement, regardless of the terrain. While it's not a brand new discovery, I bet many civ creators didn't know it. Keep experimenting Henrik, I'm always amazed at the new stuff people dig up out of this old game.

	28-01-2001 12:16									#7
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Interesting discovery, Henrick. Is the terrain zero to enter, or does it work identically to railroads.

On a totally different note, I guess from your name-home that you are a fan of David Eddings? Ever thought of doing a scenario based on his works?

"Yad ho, groja SID"

-KhanMan

	28-01-2001 12:19									#8
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Yes, it takes 0 to enter (since it is a terrain).
Hmmmm...
Scenario on the belagarion theme.
I might do something like that, but it would be after my current project.

	29-01-2001 13:58									#9
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Any news of whether or not someone has ever made a Belgaraid/Mallorean world map, like they have for Tolkien's Middle Earth? I might try that...

Best of Luck,
KhanMan

PS. Any hints as to what your current project is?

	29-01-2001 20:39									#10
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I don't think ther is such a map, feel free to create one

As for your other question:
I'm creating a historical scenario about a war that started in 1648, the same month as the peace of westphalia was singed a small cossack rebelion in what's now Ukraine (back then it was a part of the Polish/Lituan Comonwealth), soon however other countries got involved and by the year of 1656 all of the comonwealth was deiveded between Sweden and Russia (Poland hadn't had its last say in the conflicy though; the same year the exiled polish king Jan Kamierz started a rebbelion...).
Before the conflict had passed way, the nations of Brandenburg, the German Empire (ruled by the Habsburgs), Denmark, Russia, Turkey (well that is top say the berbers), Sweden, Holland, France and numerous of other contries, had all participated in some ways in this war, which just kept on growing (like wars of this time tended to do), speculations of Swedens southern border being moved to the Balck Sea, and whether the war would carry on into Spain, where all part of this european conflict.
The scenario starts in 1655 (or 1654 I'm not sure) and includes changes in seasons (especially important as this time was known as the little Ice Age) as you take control of Sweden, Poland, Denmark (who have been mergede whit Neterlands), Russia, The German Empire (who have been mnerged with all other habsburg holdings), France and Brandenburg (merged whit England into "Protestants").
But most of it is in the future now so we will se how it turns out.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 29, 2001).]

	30-01-2001 13:58									#12
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I will start work on the Belgariad map, and a Mod Pack sounds interesting...

Do you think the scenario should focus on the storyline, as in Lord of the Rings style quests with Zedar, (bel)garion, and all? Or more just the war between the different countries in "Enchanters Endgame"?

As for hyperspace, why not have transport units, with that high movement rate, but having a low attack rate (or maybe attack of zero), then you make different units, representing missles, shuttles, guns, troops, whatever, and give them one movement point (or variable), but a good attack level.

You could create fighter units that have a movement of one, and these would work as guns. You would have to keep them on the ship, since they would die a "run out of fuel" death as soon as they left, but it would solve the problem.

You could use similar means to make some ships transport others, as some have hyperdrive (or whatever) and some don't.

-Khan

	30-01-2001 19:12									#13
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I think that a scenario in the belgarion universe (obviesly before the belgarion series) should allow you to choose between all of the western countries (including Cthol Murgos) and might include Mallorea to. It should not be about "playing" the story of the book, but rather to let you controll a nation (don't really know what we should do about Alloria (Drasnia, Sendar, Chereck and Algaria) maiby when somebody takes the island of Riva an event could be used to make all of the countries in Alloria declare war on the contrie which attacked Riva (for example when Nyissan assasins killed Garions forefather and all of Alloria declared war on Nyissa) I don't think that the countries of Allorea should be forged to one since the nations would lose thier special features(like the spies in Drasnia or the horsemens in Algaria) Sendar could be included in another country though since they are so small and innactive).
Other nations would be The empire of Tolnedra, Cthol Murgos, Nyissia, Asturians and Mimbrates.
Some of these nations would for obvius reasons have to be merged into one, but I don't know which ones.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 31, 2001).]

	31-01-2001 01:38									#14
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Hmmm...

1) Chereks (with Riva under their protection?)
2) Drasnians
3) Algarians
4) Tolnedrans
5) Murgos
6) Ingrates, *ahem*, "Mimbrates
(with nominal control over most of Arendia
7) Nadrak-Malloreans
8) barbarian Sendars, Austurians (maybe with Murgo funding?), Vale of Aldur?, Ghosts of Maragor?, Nyissans?

While I love the idea of making the Sendars barbarians (surrender to the marrauding hordes of Fundor the Magnificent, for he is King and Ruttabaga Farmer! , it seems more easy to unite Aloria, and do this:

1) Aloria
2) Tolnedra
3) Murgos
4) Sendars
5) Mimbrates
6) Nadrak-Malloreans
7) Nyissans
8) barbs as ghosts of Maragor, and Austurians

The problem of Alorn Nation's individual units is easy: no one in their right mind would build drasnian pikemen on the plains of Algaria, Algar horsemen in Cherek.

All the civs in the second grouping would work, but the Nyissans and Sendars might be a bit challenging...but, then again, that's what Ming, RAH, and Xin Yu are here for

Just some thoughts,
-KhanMan

	31-01-2001 01:44									#15
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Actually I would love to play as drasnians (embassy whit everyone and veteran spies (mb through renamed communism?), lots of pikemen and alliance whit Alloria). The sendars could be merged whit Alloria (or Tolnedra).
But I dont think that Mallorea (the continent) should be included on the map, I would rather group the thulls and the murgos.
Nadraks could be an independent nation (since they are so special for being angaracks).
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 30, 2001).]

	31-01-2001 12:17									#16
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Well, after some work, I've produced a passable map of the Kingdoms of the West. The main problem is that I started with a 100x100 map, and probably should have done 80x120 or something similar.

The result is that distances in the north are fairly accurate, but south of Arendia-Algaria-Mishrak ak Thull, things are a bit compacted.

I can change the scale if you want, in a new map (anyone know of a way to copy pieces, say, 50x50 of an old map to a new one of a different size?), and, later on, add Mallorea (right now just ocean).
http://www.geocities.com/khanmaned/civ2/belgmap.zip

A possible Rigging for nations:
1) Drasnia
2) Algaria
3) Riva-Cherek
4) Tolnedra-Sendaria
5) Mimbrates
6) Murgo-Thulls (with Nyissans?)
7) Nadraks
8) Barb. Marags and Austrians (maybe event-created)

I was thinking of the fall of Maragor or so as a time setting, perhaps? Rivan Codex has helped a lot on info.

Looking forward to working with people on this.

-KhanMan

	31-01-2001 20:15									#17
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The link to your map ius broken.

	01-02-2001 13:37									#18
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Hmmm...just tried it again, using click-save as method, and it worked fine on my end...anyone else?

You wouldn't, by chance, be using a Mac, would you? I'm on a Windows98 machine, and sometimes Mac's don't agree with my computer

Know of any way to cut-paste large section of map?

-KhanMan

	01-02-2001 21:39									#19
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Well... I do, but that's usually not a problem. Try to mail it to me instead, ok?

	07-02-2001 12:04									#20
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Tried sending it to you as a zipped email attachement. Tell me if you get it alright.

-KhanMan

	07-02-2001 12:16									#21
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I got it and sent you a mail about it.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited February 09, 2001).]

	08-02-2001 11:50									#22
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Ditto-I'm trying a few different things to see how I can make the map work.

Any suggestions besides lengthening Cthol Murgos, and enlarging Cherek and Algaria?

-KhanMan

	11-02-2001 16:42									#24
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nice one! hey, what about using railroads for suburban ares as in RedFront and using movement cost 0 terrains for pre-set railroads? or the other way 'round... yeah yeah, cool!

	15-02-2001 19:38									#25
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Henrik, is that scenario you are making inspired by a certain book by Mr. Englund? I've just finished making a scenario about EXCACTLY the same thing.

	15-02-2001 21:56									#26
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lol!
Yes it is and I am almost finnished too!
Although I have read other books on the subject it has been my main source of information.
Have you read his book on the thirty years war too. I am planning to make a scenario about that one too.
He is a great writer.
I guess the civ comunity have to judge which scenario is the best one
i was even thinking about using the same title as the book "the invincible" but I am not sure the scenario is going to be playable as all nations (hardest as the polish/lituan comonwealth of course).
My scenairo will start in 1655 (the swedish intervention) and i'm not sure when it will stop (a good guess would be 1660, though). I will use season changes and lots of cool stuff, I have even gotten one of the great units creators out there (AroSh) to make me some uniqe units, and Jesus Munoz (kIndal) has been loads of help too.
I think it is good that there are many scenarios of the same wars, it shows conflicts from other views and other details have been taken care of, diversity is good!

Edit: I visited the website in your profile!
I didn't know there was a Swedish civ 2 site!
I was going to name mine that... I guess i'd better come up whit a better name then...
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited February 15, 2001).]

	15-02-2001 23:34									#27
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I used the title "Dominium Maris Baltici". It starts in 1655 and ends with the death of Karl X Gustav in 1660. The perspective is solely Swedish.

The civs are Sweden, Poland-Lithuania, Denmark, Russia, Brandenburg, Austria and Courland.

It has two events files, one for the Polish phase 1655-57 and another for the Danish phase 1657-60. It has season changes also (mostly because frozen sea looks kinda dumb in the middle of the summer).


[This message has been edited by Zengi (edited February 15, 2001).]

	16-02-2001 00:13									#28
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Good name!
I will look forward to play your version of the war(s).
I use only one events file, although that may change (I am still working on the events).
I focus more on the entire european picture, hence I use the nations of:
Hapsburgs (Imperials and Spanish)
Protestants (Brandenburg, Transylvania and England, dince you have read the book you will understand why I chose to divide the protestants in this way)
Danish (Danish and Dutch, I must find a better name for this nation)
France (French)
Russia (Russians)
Independents/Barbarians (Most parts of the Roly Roman empire of german nation, Italy (but warfare there will hardly be easy since the place is filled whit the modern Tracee Italien fortresses), Switzerland, Ottoman empire (although not thier Transylvanian Vassals), all rebelling cossacks in Ukraine).
I would have liked to be able to use more nations (but then I will have to wait for Civ III), I also have events to reflect the little Icy adventure that Karl X Gustav undertook in Denmark (the ice will freeze every winter but It is up to the player when/if to attack Denmark).
I aslo find the book by Peter Englund to be full of usefull quotes for events.
Special units are: Karl X Gustav, Jan Kazimierz, Khmelnytskyi, Tzar Aleksej, some regiments of Brandenburg Infantry that can't be built (the first the try at a standing army according to Englund).

[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited February 16, 2001).]