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Matte979
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Sweden
Nov 2000
time: 05:16
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Good point.. Firaxis are lazy and spoiled.
Go Sweden go.. Both games will be good eventually but I
bet that EU II will reach its full potential much faster.
Civ3 might sadly not do that ever..
But still both are very good games if you are a strategy game
player.
/Mathias
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Kautilya
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St Louis, MO
Feb 2000
time: 23:16
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EU= Europa Universalis. It is a grand strategy game like Civ but set in 1419 to 1820 (for EU2).
Actually it is real-time but don't confuse it with AOK or C&C type of real time; it is probably deeper than Civ in terms of gameplay and certainly a lot more historical. The real-time engine means you can have lots more countries simulatanously, almost 200 in EU2.
Check out the website:
www.europa-universalis.com
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Döbeln_2001
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Yea, EU 2 is definately on my shortlist of games to get ASAP...
Regards / Döbeln 2001
-Stabil som fan!
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RobRoy
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quote:
Originally posted by CDN_Harbinger
Is it turn-based? |
It's really turn-based with a timer turned on, so it'll feel somewhat real-time for the real-time fans. There is a pause button (which I use heavily), and you can set how frequently the days/months/years tick by. Frankly, the way I play it, it is more like a traditional turn-based game (but that is not the recommended method of play).
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squid
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This EU2 looks like a freakin' board game of Risk or something, except it's not Risk, and it's not a board game.
Very cartoony and screwed up, in my opinion. If I want to play Risk or Axis and Allies, I would do so instead. But a jigsaw glossy map and units holding these preset "sectors" of land looks
very contrived in my opinion.
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Simple Girl
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1. As far as I remember, beta testers for EU2 were chosen arbitrary, not based on experience of players and most active member of EU board. So, nothing follows immediately.
2. Too bad for not even released game to have patch already, while Firaxis will release patch a month later giving enough time to players to explore thoroughly the game. So here we have real experience of real numoerous players, not just several beta testers.
3. Nice. But I am not sure what world map is included. If it is EU2 map, then well, I am not impressed at all. I remember playing Russia in EU1, and almost all map was wrong and not historical, something EU players are proud of, historically accurate. For example , there were provinces "Kuibyshev" and "Samara". Yeah, in 1500, lol, Kuibyshev was born in 19 c. and was active member of october revolution in russia. And besides, Kuibyshev and Samara is the same province, Kuibyshev was renamed to Samara in 1991. So, map , let's say, is not quite accurate , if not say wrong mostly.
4. Interaction is important. But, I prefer Firaxis's way, remember several months ago we didnt know anything about Civ3? and any bit of info was accepted with alot of excitement? No intrigue with EU2, no surprises, no long nights learing new features, we know from the beginning what's in there. In the end, there are lots of fans and everyone has its own opinion about a game. Good game developers do not consult fans during making game, they just make it so good that anyone enjoys it eventually, independently of bugs and all that jazz.
EU is a great game, but just not as fun as Civ , and no number of patches , no interaction level of team with players, no inculded maps and so on will not ever make game better. So, if you have real arguments why EU2 is better than Civ3 then go right ahead...
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Kautilya
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St Louis, MO
Feb 2000
time: 23:16
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1.Actually the forum mods like BiB and Vulture, who are the most active forum members, were made beta-testers which ensured that some really experienced players would have their say.
2.Your second point only makes sense if you assume that the first patch will be the last patch. EU had 9 patches IIRC so I expect there to be more this time as well. Do you really think it's better that the first patch is released after 2 months than in the first week. The main point is that we don't even know when or what will be patched.
3. Don't know about the specific points you raise. Inevitably there were some inaccuracies in the map many of which have been cleared up in EU2. It's still a hell of a lot more accurate than anything in Civ though. In any case the point was that it was a nice gesture to include a little extra stuff for the fans.
4. What were the great features that were a surprise in Civ 3? There will be plenty of surprises in EU2 especially all the different events.
You don't have to put in everything the fans want but listening to their ideas certainly doesn't hurt.
I don't much want to get into a discussion of the gameplay in the two games because it's a matter of taste. I like both genres but IMO the greater realism, better diplomacy (especially since there are so many nations) and less tedious micromanagement puts EU ahead.
Also EU2 ships with improved multiplayer and scenarios; contrast that with the fact that Civ3 has neither, doesn't have a proper scenario editor and there is no information on when these things will be included.
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dainbramaged13
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Dumbass
Mar 2000
time: 00:16
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on point 4... WRONG you must not have been here... they posted plenty
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Simple Girl
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OK it doesnt have much sense to reply now when I do not have EU2, I will get it soon though, but:
1. with all my respect, I dont think game has to reflect personal preferences the forum mods like BiB and Vulture, even though they are the most active members of the board.
2. I just wanted to say that it is much serisous to make patch later to inculde as much bugs as possible than have patch already for not released game. It just says about beta-condition of EU2.
3. Civ3 is not so pretensious as EU2 and just sets approximate general settings, as the earth, nations culture etc. I though agree that some reasonable maps would be nice. While EU2 takes this responsobility to be historically accurate and fails not only in specific points i mentioned, but almost everywhere. Its just happened I know Russia better than any other country, and it is just not serious to have wrong map of such a huge country as Russia.
4. Again, I was trying to say that finding out every little detail about Civ3 was really exciting, there was some kind of intrigue, there were though lots of interviews with Firaxis, but till the end it was surpirse, while EU2 is "scripted " by its nature.
Cannot comment about multiplayer and editor, do not have game yet. Scenario editor is OK in Civ3, even not the best, and as I read now in EU board there is no scenario editor at all. Yes there is no MP, too bad for Civ3 , but still not essential point.
I think we just have different ideology about every point But it is just offensive to post here how bad Civ3 is comparing to EU, and it is offensive even more when you read in EU borad that EU gets " A+" and Civ gets "F" . Well, I played both and still find EU a very boring and straightforward game with lots of mistakes, less detailed, less intelligent, but well, I never went to EU board to express what I think, just because I know people there really love it, and respect is not that bad thing at all
Last edited by Simple Girl on 17-11-2001 at 06:02
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Maur
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Warsaw, Poland
Oct 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl
OK it doesnt have much sense to reply now when I do not have EU2, I will get it soon though, but:
1. with all my respect, I dont think game has to reflect personal preferences the forum mods like BiB and Vulture, even though they are the most active members of the board.
2. I just wanted to say that it is much serisous to make patch later to inculde as much bugs as possible than have patch already for not released game. It just says about beta-condition of EU2.
3. Civ3 is not so pretensious as EU2 and just sets approximate general settings, as the earth, nations culture etc. I though agree that some reasonable maps would be nice. While EU2 takes this responsobility to be historically accurate and fails not only in specific points i mentioned, but almost everywhere. Its just happened I know Russia better than any other country, and it is just not serious to have wrong map of such a huge country as Russia.
4. Again, I was trying to say that finding out every little detail about Civ3 was really exciting, there was some kind of intrigue, there were though lots of interviews with Firaxis, but till the end it was surpirse, while EU2 is "scripted " by its nature.
Cannot comment about multiplayer and editor, do not have game yet. Scenario editor is OK in Civ3, even not the best, and as I read now in EU board there is no scenario editor at all. Yes there is no MP, too bad for Civ3 , but still not essential point.
I think we just have different ideology about every point But it is just offensive to post here how bad Civ3 is comparing to EU, and it is offensive even more when you read in EU borad that EU gets " A+" and Civ gets "F" . Well, I played both and still find EU a very boring and straightforward game with lots of mistakes, less detailed, less intelligent, but well, I never went to EU board to express what I think, just because I know people there really love it, and respect is not that bad thing at all |
Funny now, when we have links to each other 
hmmm, i must say that apolyton forum have more smiles 
Ok, first. Game doesn't reflect Vulture and BiB views. There were a lot of discussion. And i mean A LOT OF. And still, poeple there are already talking about IGC(improved grand campaign, mod from EU I, which practically replaced standart grand campaign). Well, actually Doomdark, person who lead the IGC project, (i mean lead, for many many forum members participated and discussed it-the largest IGC thread is much over 1000 posts), Doomdark became emploee of Paradex...
2. Well, i have CIV 3. And having air superiority not functioning is more serious that all things that were changed in patch.
3. About map of EU I. There were much complaining about it, almost everyone is not happy about it. Especially me .
Reasons? Map is very hard to change, it is compressed or something (well, i'm not computer expert ). And Paradox is small company, so there are prorities, you know...
Anyway, EU map is taken from old boardgame, and this map was made by one person. Who made some big mistakes, ESPECIALLY regarding eastern and central Europe. Bah, i posted my longest post at Paradox forums suggesting chages only to Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine provinces...
Sadly, not much of it has been made 
4.Finding details???
I said i have CIV3. I rarely read this forum. I am one of the more active members of Paradox forums. Still, i wasn't surprised playing CIV 3...
About editor. I was surprised that Firaxis didn't make more things editable... well, perhaps i was spoiled by Paradox, because reaction to players saying "oh, ****, we can't change it, it's hardcoded" was making almost everything editable.
And about that grades...
Caralus Rex, you little....
Simple Girl, don't take those grades too seriously
(btw, have you participated in Paradox forums?)
Well, i played CIV from the beginning. It was the best game ever. Till EU . But i like it still. Nice. And better than most.
But it is nothing really new. Well, i myself would be better designer than Sid Meier, or someone who did this. CIV 3 is no way groundbreaking game. Only polishing. SMAC and CTP were much better in this matter, especially CTP, same settings, but many new interesting ideas. Too bad it was that much unbalanced.
Ok, that's all. Thank you
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Kautilya
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St Louis, MO
Feb 2000
time: 23:16
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GP,
I have to disagree that interaction on forums like these just pleases the fans and doesn't help the game. The reason is that the best players here are probably the experts on the Civ genre and have probably played more than anyone at Firaxis. Many of them, like Velocyrix, are pretty intelligent and articulate as well. And many of them would be ready to both beta-test the game and just offer general advice on these forums for free. It seems a shame not to use that free expertise. I don't think the paid beta-testers will equal the best players here in either enthusiasm or expertise. It's one of the odd things about the gaming industry that the free stuff is often better than the paid stuff. eg. the best scenarios are the ones created by fans not released by companies, the best reviews are the ones on forums like these not by the paid reviewers at the gaming magazines.
About patching; I guess if Firaxis patches the big problems in a month or so it would be OK though it would obviously be much better if they could have done it in one or two weeks after the release. The problem is that they more or less refuse to tell us when and what they will patch which raises question marks about their commitment. A quick patch which fixed some of the bigger bugs like air superiority would have sent a much better signal.
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DaddyCool
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Ontario, Canada
Oct 2000
time: 00:16
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Aaaah, Simple Girl....you should really look into becoming a lawyer instead. Your ability to skew things so out of proportion to suit your argument is a real talent.
You say that recruiting beta-testers from the actual fans of the game was not a good idea because they were chosen arbitralily (of course, you miss the fact that by merely signing up and participating regularly in the EU forums, one should be considered more than a casual fan of the game), while defending a game that looks like it hasn't been beta-tested at all. Air supperiority doesn't work!?! Come on...this is inexcusable. It's not like it's some obscure crash bug. A documented feature of the game doesn't work...no not sometimes...or in certain circumstances, but AT ALL!
You denounce the fact that Paradox has a patch ready to go, days after the game's release, and defend Firaxis' gracious foresight to allow 'players to explore thoroughly the [many bugs in their] game.' Don't get me wrong, Firaxis has said there would be a patch, and they're probably working their butts off over there, but how you can see a faster patch as being a bad thing...well....i don't know.
You argue about EU's small historical inacurracies, while defending a game which is only slightly more historically acurate than something like Heroes of Might and Magic.
And, here's the kicker, you view the participation of the EU2 lead programmer and game designer (among others at Paradox) in EU's forums as a stifler of...ummm...intrigue about features of the game. Imagine that! Fans can actually get to talk to the guy making the game, and he may even listen! The audacity! How dare they!
Ummm...ya-ok, whatever.......
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shawng1
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Denver
Oct 2001
time: 05:16
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K,
I have to say that Paradox has provided more support and community for its game than any designers have ever done before. And that is to their praise. They have consistently listened to the concerns of the audience--the people who will have to fork over $65 to buy the product.
I can't say I'm sure Firaxis did this with Civ 3. A LOT of features I liked from Civ 2 are gone, and the gameplay seems far more shallow. I can't help but admit that although I do like playing Civ3, I am somewhat disappointed in the product. I can't say I agree with the "A+, F" comment, but that is that person's own opinion. I find some of the comments about EU made here by Civ propagandists equally innane. If you think playing EU is like playing Risk or Axis, all I can say is that you obviously haven't looked under the hood of this marvelously complex game.
Honestly, I don't think Civ 3 is the game it could have been if it had paid better attention to its audience. I like the diplomacy options, but for all the talk of how Leaders would be a great addition, they have been made so hard to attain that only a total warmonger can get them, so how big a change is that? Air superiority doesn't work. I still find medieval units beating modern units far too often. In short, there are significant unresolved game issues. Let alone the multiplayer fiasco, which doesn't bother me personally, but does irritate others to no end.
EU2, by all accounts, takes the issues that were most frequently levelled against it, and deals with them. And it does so without dumbing down the game. If you're not a grognard, you probably will find EU too much game for you. However, if you love history, no game can compare to the EU series. Period.
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17-11-2001 00:41
If you had to move it, Other games would have been more logical?
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