17-11-2001 02:10									#1
	Trade Embargos Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Is there a way to end these?....I can't find anything....

	17-11-2001 02:29									#2
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Like other agreements, you can end them by going into the "active" section of the dialog with another leader (at the bottom) and clicking on them. That allows you to renegotiate - if you don't want the agreement at all, you can then just say goodbye, and it will be cancelled. If there is a number next to the agreement, that is the number of turns left before you can cancel. I think the only way to cancel in this case is to declare war.

	17-11-2001 07:13									#3
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The same for any other agreement or trade. Click on "active", and if there are not any more turns left out of the 20, the item can be cancelled or renegotiated.

	17-11-2001 08:52									#4
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the first post should of asked "how to start these"

starting efficient trade embargoes is nearly impossible. I do mean efficient ones, since whats to point to agree to an embargo if you don't even trade with the civ in the first place. The AI agrees, it's no problem.

On the other hand if the AI does trade with the target civ, it going to be a very expensive deal. I've never been able to pull it off, but I'm guessing that if you offer replacement luxuries/resources, then maybe its doable.

	17-11-2001 09:36									#5
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Trade embargos are usually a good add-on clause in your declaration of multual protection/military alliance with an ally.

As for trading, you may not trade with the target Civ you want to place an embargo on, but the civilization you want help you create a trade embargo may have trade routes with them and that's the point. This is especially useful in wars during the middle ages where trade is mostly by land. If you're being blocked by expansion by a Rival Civ and there's a third Civ that's sandwiching your rival Civ, I usually play the two against each other, but I prefer allying with the fartherest Civ to crush the one bordering me. You get more immediate gains that way.

	17-11-2001 09:58									#6
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quote: Originally posted by dexters As for trading, you may not trade with the target Civ you want to place an embargo on, but the civilization you want help you create a trade embargo may have trade routes with them and that's the point.

I understand this, and it's what I was trying to express how hard it is to get another civ to embargo against another one.

It's like asking a civ to break a trading partnership, it must be a hit on the reputation and the AI needs a lot of incentive to agree. It's just as hard to get two civs who have a mutual protection pact to join in an military aliance against each other. Betrayal, not an easy thing to make the AI do.

With the upper hand though i'm sure it's possible. Lot's of cash, techs, spare cities, the right goods to trade.. theres certainly a good combo and a circumstance where it's doable. It's just not easy to get I think. I've been proposed embargos often and I've agreed, but I've never yet instigated an embargo where it was worthwile - i.e: making an embargo so the enemy civ has no uranium/alumnium/etc trading partners.

By your post though you sound like you can pull it off. Have they been effective, and where they hard to do? What difficulty level you playing on too?

I'm still playing on regeant btw, but moving to monarch after one more game!

	17-11-2001 10:08									#7
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Like I said, Embargoes are good tools in addition to wars. I don't think they are good economic tools, and are not very efficient at containing a rival civ by using a trade embargo only.

Perhaps with only one exception. Basically, if there's say 3 sources of oil. You control 1 and another civ controls 2, with one spare for trade but you want to make sure a strategic competitor to your Civ never gets that oil so you may continue your unit superiority, then I would guess it would be worthwhile to spend a lot of money to make sure there is an embargo. If five other Civs have it, and they all demand a ton of tribute, that's obviously not very effective for you to weaken a rival as you would be weakening your position to begin with.

Trade embargos are good add-on treaties after you got an ally to agree with you to go to war with a third Civ. At that point, they've usually crossed the line. Adding trade embargo won't cost you nearly as much and you can make sure your enemy doesn't get a vital resource. or at least that's been my experience.

But trade embargos in peacetime, should be used selectively and as a strategic tool. Because it will probably cost you. Unless of course you can somehow negotiate good terms, then perhaps it will be viable.

One thing with Civ 3's AI is that is can be a tad unpredictable on different games because your relative power and other factors play a key role in negotiations. Hence, it is often difficult to write an all encompassing rule on how an AI might react.

	17-11-2001 14:59									#8
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it was done to cut off a civs supply of saltpeter so they would not be able to build muskets and cavalry.The time came for a lifting of embargos.
I figured it out now.Wondered what that active thing was

	23-11-2001 22:55									#9
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I've actually had a pretty effective trade embargo in my current game. On an Archipelago world, the Chinese have the biggest empire in terms of land area, or at least the biggest "starting island." At some point, they declared a particularly stupid war against me. For the heck of it, I tried getting all the other civs to join me in trade embargoes against China - and they all did!

It seems to have significantly stunted their development. They've been somewhat lucky on strategic resources, but I have a feeling that a lack of luxuries has been hurting them.

In a similar vein, I'm currently experimenting with using oil exports and occasional technology gifts to control the course of a war between the Iroquois and Americans, who share the biggest land mass. Neither has its own oil supply. I started supporting the weaker Iroquois to keep them standing, then later sold them some of my surplus oil. Now they seem to have the Americans on the ropes, so I'm thinking about giving the oil to them once the current arrangement expires. Or, since I have 2 surplus oil, maybe I'll just sell to both of them and watch the carnage....

(That was another fun thing, incidentally - I had a right of passage with the Americans, and stationed a "military observer" Spearman on top of a mountain in the borderlands just to watch the action.)

On another question, I know how to cancel my own embargoes, but if you're the *target* of the embargo, is there anything you can do to get the two participants to cancel it? It doesn't appear to be one of the diplomatic options.