17-11-2001 16:36									#1
	How to comprehend Culture? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How can a superior cultural nation take back a city by way of culture, that was taken from them by conquest over 2000 years ago?
In this game I was France, while the superior cultural nation was Germany.

-The city was located next to my capital and had grown from size 1 (when captured) to size 12 (when it defected).
- It had around 200+ culture and was lying next to my capital with 3500+ culture.
- It did indeed have one german citizen, but against 11 french ones.
- There was no unhappiness or revolt.
- I did not share a mutual border with Germany. In fact, we where an ocean apart, literally.
- I had 3 units guarding the city
- I did have a courthouse that prevents enemy propaganda.
- I was a Republic, if that has anything to do with it.
- Oh, and I was doing poorly at the time ending up as number 7 out of 8 in almost all the rankings, but no wars.

My questions are many: How is this possible? Should it be possible? How can I foresee that this is going to happen? What can be done to prevent it (as the game currently is)?

Personally I think this is a job for the patching-department. At least give us someway of seeing that something is rotten in Denmark! (or Bonn in this case).

	17-11-2001 17:08									#2
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I have to say that I'm slightly dubious about this, although the Germans may have done a propoganda mission in your city or they may be more than just a little superior that you in culture. Anyway, please post a save game.

	17-11-2001 18:24									#3
	Feeling a bit stupid Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Didn't know about the propagandamission....

How does it work?

	17-11-2001 19:59									#4
	Remove this text

I think if you think of culture as religion and similar philosophies, then civ3 makes more sense. Religion has converted 'barbarian heathens' (victorian christians words not mine) with missionairies and political/social pressures. Stronger cultures /religions always overtake smaller less sound ones, unless the smaller native culture is maintained purposefully with tribal meetings.

An interesting example is in New Zealand, where the great Maori culture of language, lifestyle and mythology/religion has been kept alive quite well with such things as the Wellington Te'Papa museum - which partly explains to tourists and maori about their culture and also the whole rich Polynesian culture, the other part being about science and wildlife and history of new zealands colonial past. Its worth a visit, i was in Wellington for 2 months roughly , I wish i'd gone on board the Aegis style Australian cruiser that was docked at TePapa (was it coincidence Taiwan was moving away from chinas autocratic policies?) , but I did visit the Endeavour replica Galleon/Frigate, which captain cook sailed on.

LordPeter - Hopefully purchasing civ3 within the hour

	17-11-2001 20:06									#5
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Surely it shouldn't be hard to regain Bonn? If you have such a good cultural rating (it dosen't sound like you have that good a one) you shouldn't be having too many problems surely?
Let them build up bonn paying for it with their money, then retake it culturally.
Democracy stops propoganda missions dosen't it? might be the quickest solution, remember to build temples and wonders to increase culture.. perhaps you should have moved your palace to Bonn, then it shouldn't ever betray you.

	17-11-2001 20:41									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Just for the record:

I had the _exact_ same thing happen to me. City that I got from France going back to Germany a few hundred years after defecting over to me in the first place. Size was 12-13. No unhappiness, tons of cultural improvements. Not far from my capital and I had about 40% of the culuture points on the map.

At first I suspected some funny espionage business but now that someone else had it happen exactly the same way, who knows, might be a bug.

Not complaining though. I love the shock value of these little surprises the game throws at you.

	17-11-2001 20:48									#7
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The French don't seem to have too much of a problem letting Germany annex them, do they? Apparently the game designers attempted to add a little realism to the game.

-Apolex

	17-11-2001 23:07									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

I also had a similar tale of woe, rival across the water, city near my capital, etc. etc. Culture is a great concept here, and possibly even well implemented, but it needs to be tweaked!

	18-11-2001 05:32									#9
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I agree to the concept, but would wish for some kind of warning.

It was mostly that I thought a mutual border was needed for it to happen that puzzled me the most.
I confess that I haven't played that much yet, and I guess I'll play some more to see how incidents like the one described above, fits into the bigger picture.