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SnowFire is offline SnowFire
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New York City, NY
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
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ADCT01 Game C, Fall 1910 Moves Suffering from ads?

The Mediterranean waters continue to bleed red with the advancing Austrian flag. Meanwhile English marines land in Prussia.

Russia has proposed a 3-way draw between England, Austria, and France with Russia conceding. Send in your votes with your next set of moves.

Spring moves (no builds for anybody) are due either ASAP or after Thanksgiving weekend, depending on how fast you want these. Or possibly never at all if you all decide to draw.

http://www.geocities.com/myrdred_ii/ADT01c/index.html

Fall 1910
England (Reismark)
F North Sea-English Channel
F Norwegian Sea-North Sea
F Norway-Sweden
A Denmark-Prussia
F Baltic Sea CONVOY A Denmark-Prussia
A Berlin SUPPORT A Denmark-Prussia
F Livonia SUPPORT A Denmark-Prussia
A Kiel SUPPORT A Berlin
F St. Petersburg SUPPORT F Livonia

Austria (RUFFHAUS)
A Munich supports Russian A Silesia - Berlin (*void*)
A Bohemia supports Munich - hold
A Tyrolia supports Munich - hold
A Piedmont - hold
A Venice supports A Piedmont - hold
F Tuscany supports F Tyrhennian Sea - Gulf of Lyon
F Tyrhennian Sea - Gulf of Lyon
F Naples - Tyrhennian Sea
F Ionian Sea - Tunis
A Rome - hold
A Galicia - hold
A Rumania - hold
A Armenia - hold

Russia (Chazzy)
A-MOS S A-SEV
A-SEV HOLD
A-PRU>WAR
A-SIL S A-PRU>WAR

France (El Awrence)
F Wme S F Tun
F Tun S F Wme (*cut*)
F Lyo H (*dislodged, retreat to: Spa (sc), OTB*)
A Par > Gas
A Bur > Mun (*bounce*)
A Mar H
A Ruh S A Bur > Mun
A Hol > Bel

Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 20-11-2001 01:54 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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Vote aye.

reismark is offline reismark
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Aye.

RUFFHAUS 8 is offline RUFFHAUS 8
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 17:39 Visit RUFFHAUS 8's homepage!
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I would like to make a counter proposal:

Austria-Hungary, England, France, Russia draw.


I think we have a DIAS situation here. Yes, Chazzy has played himself into the draw. And frankly my position is as dependent on his Russia as England and France are depenent upon each other. Furthermore, a stab upon Russia by my Austria wouldn't bring a solo, because I lose his support for Munich, which then falls to England or France, leaving me at 17 assuming that I take all of Chazzy's centers (very likely) and Tunis (also very likely). I don't play that way. That's a pointless stab that also opens me up to some (minimal) risk that I don't close in on Russia fast enough, and I lose evrything. I might consider selling him out for a solo, but I don't see it there. So I'm not attacking Russia without his expressed invitation.

So I'm voting NO for the three-way draw. But I vote YES for a four-way (DIAS).

Last edited by RUFFHAUS 8 on 22-11-2001 at 17:47

Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 17:47 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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Yeah on what Ruff said. It's true anyway.

SnowFire is offline SnowFire
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Erm... well, I would come in and declare the game over, but if Ruffhaus is changing his vote, I suppose not.

Reismark & Chazzy, I suppose you have to vote on this new proposal as well. Although RUFFHAUS, you might want to clarify the strength of this new proposal- if either Reismark or Chazzy votes no to your proposal, will you change your vote back and go with the old 3-way? Not that you have to say, of course, but it might speed things up.

RUFFHAUS 8 is offline RUFFHAUS 8
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I suppose if Chazzy votes against including himself then we have a problem. I'm not trying to drag this out or play games with people's time. I just really feel that Chazzy earned his spot here. Sorry for the confusion...

So my position is:

Austria-Hungary/England/France = NO
Austria-Hungary/England/France/Russia = YES

reismark is offline reismark
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  Old Post 23-11-2001 22:59 Visit reismark's homepage!
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I'll agree to including Russia in the draw, but only because it would take me at least a few years to finish him off since I have few armies which are in a bad position... If I could do it in one or two seasons, I'd say no, but that's obviously not the case.

I could complain about the scoring for the tournament, because if we include the last year as I would have preferred (as I said to Snowie on a number of occasions) it would be ME rather than Erwin getting the final spot (as of the last count, anyway)... but I'm not going to because I've got other things to worry about.

RUFFHAUS 8 is offline RUFFHAUS 8
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Well, if you were going to complain about the tournament scoring, then you should have done so before it started. That's when the tournament rules established that the four preliminary games would be played to the end of 1909. This may not be a popular method in some circles, but it is effective and has established tournament precedent behind it.

And rest assured, this game was played with the assumption by more than one player that the jig was up in 1909, otherwise, there might still be Italian fleets on the British Isles.

As for going anywhere in the north against Russia, all I can say is not without my say so. His position is pretty strong as long as I'm backing him. Furthermore, how long do you think that your alliance with France last if you were planning to pass him up?

Defiant is offline Defiant
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  Old Post 24-11-2001 00:13
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Reismark,
If the dog hadn't stopped to take a piss, he would have caught the rabbit too.

reismark is offline reismark
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Skip the lecture, gentlemen... it turns out neither of us would've made it anyway...

Chazzy is offline Chazzy
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 26-11-2001 22:27
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I will vote " Aye " to a 4-way and and put a close to this game. My congrats to all who were involved in game C , and to those who advanced to the championship round.
I originally proposed the 3-way because my position was tenuous at best, what with England to my north and Austria to my west and south I was a stab waiting to happen. I appreciate the loyalty my Austrian ally has shown in this game . If the game would have drawn out further I would probably have slowly yeilded my sc's to him for his staying the course in our alliance, and for France's refusal to commit to a stab of his partner ( England ) which would have assured him of a solid second place in the game .
I like the format of the game ending in 1909. I set my plans for this senario and tried to hold on to them even when the game turned against me. I made some critical errors in the early going which hurt my position bad and prohibited me form gaining strength in the north. i also would'nt have allied with Austria if this were a normal format for obvious reasons, but I wanted to see if it would work in a tourney game that ends in 09'. We live and learn , Thanks all for a good game !

SnowFire is offline SnowFire
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Okay, game's over folks. Post your EOGs (if you want), I'll add in a brief GM EOG in a few days, I suppose.

Good game all.

reismark is offline reismark
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  Old Post 27-11-2001 02:37 Visit reismark's homepage!
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I originally was rather displeased with my drawing of England - it's not a particularly strong country for mainland efforts, because of its location; I had also had a rather distasteful experience in the 2000 Worldmasters tourney (though that experience was largely due to my idiocy and inexperience at the time, as well as a duplicitous France).

I resolved to make peace with the aforementioned France right off the bat and was successful; Erwin, as I learned later in the game, is a loyal Diplomacy player and doesn't like the politics or backstabbing. We resolved to dispatch Germany quickly (Germany & Austria, being very centralized, are huge wild cards and can either be your best friends or your worst enemies from a position standpoint). Fortunately, Coug's failure to do anything with Berlin, plus an NMR made our job signifcantly easier.

Getting full control of Scandinavia was much tougher, as I did not have any assistance from France in the area and Russia was far more intelligent and resourceful than I expected. It turned into a see-saw battle, and I really did not gain full control of the north until the last season that counted in the tournament standings (Fall 1909). During that time, we traded Sweden & St. Petersburg back and forth on several occasions, until I managed to flood the area with fleets and surround him from all corners.

This ended up costing me in the middle of a game, as an unnamed Dipper not in the game convinced me to stab France due to his much stronger armies on the mainland, which made my hold on Kiel tenuous at best. I helped Austria get into Munich, and then quickly payed the price for not trusting my instincts as Austria stabbed me in the back and helped Russia into Berlin, which would pretty much set the table up for the rest of the game.

My stab at France, though not elongated, was particularly damaging, because it gave Austria time to amass a fleet large enough that would slowly and steadily push France back in the Mediterranean. While I was making gains in the north, France was losing ground in the south, and even though I was sending a ship to the south after the claiming of the north was completed, I'm not sure if it would've been enough to stop him. The game probably would've stalemated had we played on, because I only had three armies in the north, and I was not in a good position to make a stab for Moscow. Had we played on, and I had beaten Austria to Moscow (assuming, of course, that Austria would inevitably turn on its far weaker ally), that would've been the key to preventing an Austrian solo.

The reason why the England/France alliance worked so well, even in the time period after I pulled back from my stab where France could've easily distrusted me, was because one of us never grew measurably bigger than the other. In an alliance like Austria/Russia, where one clearly dwarfs another, stabs are inevitable. My stab was totally out of spur-of-the-moment paranoia, and regrettably, it ultimately led to Austria gaining the upper hand. Erwin, I would like to once again apologize to you for my tomfoolery.

An excellent game which proves once again that the old adage holds true: Stick to your instincts.

Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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  Old Post 27-11-2001 04:03 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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Was it that dastardly orange? Was it that backstabbing orange that I will make juice out of??? Not the ONE orange, the other orange!

reismark is offline reismark
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quote:
Originally posted by El Awrence
Was it that dastardly orange? Was it that backstabbing orange that I will make juice out of??? Not the ONE orange, the other orange!

He shall remain unnamed

Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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  Old Post 27-11-2001 19:10 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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IT WAS IT WAS IT WAS THAT SONOFA***** I'M GOING TO KILL HIM!!!!

RUFFHAUS 8 is offline RUFFHAUS 8
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Austria- Hungary EOG Remove this text

Wow, this game was a wild ride! Defiant was giving me a hard time about the 'easy' draw I got, but I think this game as tough as any of the four preliminary games. Specifics to follow...

Thanks first of all to SnowFire for another excellent job as GM. The website was a wonderful touch, and having access to the archived turns and maps was really great. As Reismark has mentioned elsewhere, the Boshkovian mapping style isn't exactly money, but they work well enough. I don't really like the use of the power rankings and GM speculation, but I gotta admit it's fun reading. It's a bit of a double-edged sword really. Anyway, another great job in the GM chair as we've come to expect from Snowie.

On to the game. I honestly think that this has been the most challenging Diplomacy game that I've played in at Apolyton. I was allied to and at odds with every player on the map at one point or another, which is not a typical game for me. The draw of Austria-Hungary wasn't concerning to me as much as the three players around me were. I had Chazzy in Russia, and he and I had never been able to work together before, and got off to a rocky start in this game after a botched alliance attempt. In Turkey I had Taurus. How appropriate a name is that?! This guy is a real bull! Negotiating with him is like pulling teeth. And he's tricky as hell. I knew that I needed to take him out fast. And on the other side of me is the mysterious His Divine Shadow. Coug in Germany wanted peace, which I was happy to give, but I worried that he wouldn't last long, and knew that I needed to stand by just incase he started crumbling.

To start the game I decided on Turkey as an enemy, and sought an alliance with Russia. And fortunately I was able to capatalize on an apparently pre-existing fued between HDS and El Awrence to buy some time till I could cripple Turkey. HDS and I worked out a nice non-agression pact, but Chazzy and I stalled in deciding how to take out Taurus, who did an admirable job hanging on and trying to dip is way out of trouble. I had a falling out with Chazzy over my move to Galicia, which was with his consent, and only made to destroy retreating turks. But almost immediately all that could be talked about was that it was next to Warsaw. We went round and round over this, and I decided that Chazzy would never trust me. I went to Italy and and Turkey for new prospective partners. HDS was happy to accept my deal. Or was he? He said yes, but apparently was only using it as a chance to stab, which came soon. Taurus was damn difficult even when I was offering peace. I was was getting nervous here. and then HDS stabbed for Trieste. I was about to have three enemies. Even worse news came from the north where my German friends went into hibernation, and got whacked by England and France. Time for some action, fast!

I went to HDS, and asked for peace, offering to allow him to keep Trieste for an indefinate period if he would continue with his western campaign. He agreed, and offered to release Trieste back eventually. Actually I was hoping that this alliance would take off, because Italy had two fleets in the Atlantic Ocean and England and France were going to have to deal with them soon. And then somehow, I managed to talk Chazzy into an alliance again and we took out Taurus. I took Trieste back unannounced (well, it's my home SC anyway!) and starting dictating terms to HDS, who was getting hammered by E/F. It was a miscalculation on my part, because I didn't want to cripple Italy.

Things with Russia began stalling again though, and while things were safe, the alliance was not making progress. Along about this point I accepted support from England into Munich, and began talking to Reismark about alliance that would take our respective nations through. At the same time I swas trying to court France and pint him at Engand. However, it became evident that the England/France relationship was tighter than anything either would have with me. So I went back to Italy and Russia and decided to take it to E/F.

Reismark and El Awrence played a fantastic alliance game and while they bickered a little, they shut down any solo drive I had. Seeing this I decided that I needed Chazzy alive, and resisted urges to blitz southern Russia and his share of Turkey. Somewhere HDS threw in with France, and I rubbed him out for his folly!

At the end I was making some naval progress against France, but England was sailing to the rescue, and breaching the Atlantic was looking impossible. If the game continued, I would have taken Tunis in Fall 1910, which would put me at 14. However, if I attacked Russia, then I lost his support of Munich. Even though Chazzy had the 4 SCs that I needed to solo, and I could guarantee taking them all, I couldn't hold Munich without him. Incidentally the key SCs here were Marseilles, Munich, and St. Petersburg. Moscow was mine for the taking, because England simply had too few armies to take it and nothing to hold it with even if they did slip in.

Marseilles - shut down with French units in Gascony providing uncut support, and with the Atlantic closed down was a lost cause.
Munich - dependent on Russian units
St. Petersburg - while held by English fleets, it could always be supports with at least two other fleets, whos support I couldn't cut.

Anyway, great job guys! This was a battle to the end, with the outcome riding on one or two centers at every turn. There was lots of intrigue and alliance switching, and yet what held the day in the end was staying true to alliances.

Defiant is offline Defiant
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WISCONSIN
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  Old Post 27-11-2001 21:53
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I just want to say, that anybody who has Chazzy as a neighbor has a leg up on the game from the get-go!

reismark is offline reismark
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  Old Post 05-12-2001 19:39 Visit reismark's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SnowFire
Okay, game's over folks. Post your EOGs (if you want), I'll add in a brief GM EOG in a few days, I suppose.

Where is this? Personally, I'd like to see what you thought about this game...

Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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  Old Post 05-12-2001 20:13 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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Oh, I'd forgotten my EOG... will post it after lunch.

SnowFire is offline SnowFire
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Reismark: Well, I was going to post it after everybody else did so, and then the thread dropped down and I forgot... but anyway, Hoggy can have the floor now, and I'll be sure to write something after he posts his thingermajig.

orange is offline orange
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quote:
Originally posted by El Awrence
IT WAS IT WAS IT WAS THAT SONOFA***** I'M GOING TO KILL HIM!!!!


Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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  Old Post 06-12-2001 06:33 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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I knew it! I knew it! Reismark, don't let orange aka Yuri control your mind with his evil tricks!

In any case, this was an interesting game. I hammered out that alliance with reismark at the start and we seemed to be doing good progress (bah, excellent progress) picking out Germany. But I was always under the long shadow of Britain that was cast south, I couldn't break through in the strategic race for a better position with Britain.

I was particularly surprised that it worked so well at first, particularly because communications with reismark were not as fluent as I would have liked, but still, it held out. But THEN, he just had to sharpen that blade, after helping him out against Italy, when we were ready to take on Austria Hungary and its evil Ruffhaus, he just had to take the steel and drive it into my... thigh. Because after that I only wanted to drive reismark off the map, I threw myself at Ruff after he double crossed me too... So I offered myself as Ruff's lackey and asked him that he could do whatever he wanted with me, so long as I could get back at reismark...

But reismark saw his error, and I smiled benevolently upon his countenance, so we took on the evil Austrian commies and well, here we are. Although I'm afraid that Ruff could have broken through in a couple of turns out of the Medit and finished me.

Still, thanks gentlemen, yet another excellent game. Yet another big knife. Yet another big Vendetta.

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