20-11-2001 21:28									#61
	An opinion of one of Bush's advisors: Remove this text

quote: On another front, Richard Perle urged the Bush administration to use troops, bombers, dissidents and opposition forces to destroy President Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq. Perle, a senior Pentagon official in the Reagan administration, said Iraq should be the next target after the Taliban is defeated because "it poses the greatest threat to the United States." There is evidence linking Saddam to the al-Qaida organization, Perle said in a breakfast with reporters, and "the only way to deal with Saddam Hussein is to destroy his regime." He said the United States would not need much support from other Arab countries. Whatever they might say officially about a U.S. attack, "there will be dancing in the streets" when Saddam is overthrown, Perle said. His defeat will serve as notice to other nations that support terrorism that they may be targeted, as well, Perle said. He is a member of a defense policy board that offers advice to the Bush administration. But Perle said he was speaking for himself.

An excerpt from a basically un-related article. http://news.excite.com/news/ap/0111...tacks-diplomacy

	20-11-2001 23:54									#62
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If you attack Iraq you

1) Piss Turkey off for slowing down the oil smuggling. That is one of the air pockets keeping there economy floating above water

2) Anger Syria, Same story with turkey. Not to mention the perception that maybe this is a war on Islam

3) Piss of Saudi Arabia, at one time I think S.Arabia would like to see Iraq get bombed. But now...there citizens see on TV what bombing/sanctions is doing. The majority of Saudi's dislikes the kings policys (bad political move)

4) MPP is dead....

5)Eygpt is angry....

6)Russia and China are infuriated.

7) Uk are foriegn policy stooges have already announce they would not take part in any Strikes on Iraq fearing economic retaliation from Arab states

8) Even if you bomb Saddam...how you gonna kill him? Hes escaped the bombings thus far!

9)Iran is shitting in there pants thinking there next!

10) Other muslim nations will preceive this as a war against Islam.





Well I covered just about all the reasons why we shouldnt hit Baghdad.

If you can come up with 10 pro reasons. I might consider replying.

	21-11-2001 00:08									#63
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quote: 10) Other muslim nations will preceive this as a war against Islam.

Oh like they are in the attack on the taliban???

	21-11-2001 00:21									#64
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quote: Originally posted by drake Oh like they are in the attack on the taliban???

So goes an old Chinese proverb...

Once is a mistake...twice is a tragic mistake

	21-11-2001 00:30									#65
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Iraq will still be standing after Saddam is gone. The oil will still be there......

A fairer leader in iraq will benefit the middle east and the rest of the world.....but thats just my opinion.

I genuinely believe Afghanistan will be a better place with new leadership in place. Just as Iraq would be a better place without maniacal saddam.

	21-11-2001 01:27									#66
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Just for you, Saddam.

quote: All-Negative, All the Time By Michael Kelly Wednesday, November 14, 2001; Page A33 "Good evening, and welcome to 'All Is Lost,' the nightly public affairs program produced by National Public Radio and the British Broadcasting Corp. Tonight we discuss what has been called America's war against terror. I am your host, Perfectly Modulated Voice of Reason. "With me, in our Washington studio, are: Fabled Newsman Who Was There When Saigon Fell . . . Scientifically Trained Impartial Scholar . . . and Bureau Chief of Second-Rate Regional Monopoly Newspaper Who Is Desperate to Be Hired by the New York Times. From London, we are joined by our European affairs analyst, Loathes America and Prays for Its Swift Destruction. "First, today's war news. Tens of thousands of Afghans in liberated Kabul greeted President George W. Bush with wild cheers and much waving of American flags. The mayor of Kabul, in a traditional gesture of welcome, presented President Bush with the head of Osama bin Laden on a pike. Accepting the gaily decorated head, Mr. Bush quipped: 'This shall not stand -- at least not without this handy pike!' Meanwhile, across the Middle East, news of the so-called allied victory in Afghanistan appeared to be producing remarkable changes in the political dynamic. Radical Islamic fundamentalism, as Western critics perhaps unfairly call it, seemed under attack. . . . "In Iran, tens of thousands of men lined up at barber shops for shaves and Western-style haircuts, with the majority favoring the 'mullet' look, which is popular, we are informed, with young men in some American regions where we have actually never been. . . . In Iraq, President Saddam Hussein remained for the fifth day under siege in his summer palace as hundreds of thousands of students gathered outside chanted, 'Hey hey, ho ho, the Great and Maximum Leader for Life has got to go.' . . . "The governments of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait pledged today to develop armies sufficient to protect themselves without American assistance, pointing out that it was wrong to ask the United States to shoulder the burden of defending their wholly corrupt oligarchies. In Israel, newly appointed tourism minister Yasser Arafat announced a new policy of 'peace at any cost.' Saying 'I must have been meshugenah,' Arafat declared: 'Of course, Jerusalem must be the capital of the Jewish homeland, any fool can see that.' "Gentleman, given all this, the question is obvious -- Is there any reason to even go on?" Chorus: "No . . . no . . . utterly hopeless . . . doomed . . . repudiation of entire U.S. strategy. . . . A colossal failure . . . no hope." Perfectly Modulated: "Scientifically Trained, why doomed?" Scientifically Trained: "Well, it is important to put all this into context. In the Islamic world, things are never what they seem. As the great Hashemite warrior Abdullah the Less Than Brilliant expressed it, 'The victory of my enemy is my victory.' This is how this week's events will be seen in what I like to call the Arab street -- as a prelude and a catalyst to a great uprising against American interests, led by an entire new generation of martyrs inspired to jihad by U.S. belligerence." Perfectly Modulated: "Fabled Newsman, what says the view from inside the Beltway?" Fabled Newsman: "Been there. Best and brightest. Tet. Vietnamization. No light at the end of the tunnel." Perfectly Modulated: "And would you go so far as to say . . . " Fabled Newsman: "Yes. Absolutely: Quagmire. Quagmire. Quagmire. Quagmire. Waist deep in the Big Muddy. Quagmire." Perfectly Modulated: "Desperate to be Hired by The Times, what's your take?" Desperate to be Hired: "Whatever Fabled Newsman said goes double for me. With bells on. You bet. Count me in. Ditto." Perfectly Modulated: "Now let's go to our European analyst, Loathes America, for the insight from over there. Loathes, what is the mood of Europe tonight?" Loathes America: "Bleak, of course. And properly so. I mean, one does not wish to say that this debacle is what America deserves for its arrogance, its vulgarity, its bullying ways -- well, actually one does wish to say it, doesn't one rather? Really, one just hates America. Really, one always has, ever since one was just a little chap." Perfectly Modulated: "Thank you, Loathes America. A valuable insight as always. Gentlemen, last thoughts?" Scientifically Trained: "Things could hardly be worse." Loathes America: "Nonsense. That Pollyanna optimism so typical of you naive colonials. Things could always be worse. And will be. Thank God." Fabled Newsman: "Quag . . . " Desperate: " . . . mire." Perfectly Modulated: "And that wraps up another edition of 'All Is Lost.' Good night, and pleasant dreams."

	21-11-2001 01:36									#67
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I genuinely believe Afghanistan will be a better place with new leadership in place.

I genuinely believe the US would be a better place with new leadership.

	21-11-2001 01:41									#68
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It might be garth......but it wouldnt be a day/night sort of switch in America, like it will be in Afghanistan. Even had Gore been elected for instance. It's not like America would have changed drastically had he been elected.

I imagine just about any president with any sense of responsibility would have handled the current situation in a similar fashion as good old bush did. And if not, how should have a leader handled it?

	21-11-2001 01:42									#69
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Well, according to dome people on this board. Stick your head in the sand and do nothing.

	21-11-2001 02:24									#70
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Drake: True but I am just being difficult

Do you know if things changed drastically when Milosevic was gone? Has any of the promised clean up aid got there?

And if not, how should have a leader handled it?

I actually have little problem with the way this has been handled. Except domestically.

	21-11-2001 02:30									#71
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faded glory, you're the same as those commies. if we "go after" Iraq it will probably be deposing Saddam. It's not like we're going to enter a huge land war, we'll do it "diplomatically" like we did/are doing in Afghanistan.

	21-11-2001 02:32									#72
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Victor, get your head of your college fantasy professor dominated arse and look at the real world. You think you could be dictator of Romania just becuase you can crush the Chinese in Civ 3? It's much more than that

	21-11-2001 03:24									#73
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I nominate Bob Dornan for most humorous poster.

	21-11-2001 04:01									#74
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Damnit Bob

Stop besmirching my pius name with accusations of being a Commie.


I speak truth. You are a bumbling idiot

Where are my 10 reasons "Why we should bomb Iraq and how we would benefit".?

	21-11-2001 04:20									#75
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You're an unintelligient Berkeley style peace pansy. If we wipe out iraq, it will do more good actually. It will send a message to our enemies: don't mess. Libya got it when we bombed em.

	21-11-2001 06:56									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Bob Dornan You're an unintelligient Berkeley style peace pansy

	21-11-2001 06:59									#77
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I think this is the first time ive been on the receiving end of Bob's ignorance.

Any victims out there got any suggestions?

	21-11-2001 07:05									#78
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faded glory, I'm a no spin kinda guy like Bill O'Reilly. Just because you may be a conservative doesn't mean I let you off the hook. I fight for truth, justice, and equality always. A paladin of Noble Knights of Order. Seeing how you're desparate for advice, my sword has vanquished thee ye goblin beast

	21-11-2001 07:19									#79
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Silence Bob, ye Swine of Satan.


Thou hast heard enough of ye foul blasphemy emancipating from thy tongue...



( Im not good at king james englitsch or whatever its called )

	21-11-2001 07:22									#80
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No bob(if thats really your name).....your someone who spends his life browsing these forums posting complete non-sense.


Make sense damn you

Give me 10 reasons why we should bomb Iraq. I personally dont believe you could find it on a map......but c'mon. Lets hear it billybob


Get cracking on my reasons!

	21-11-2001 07:27									#81
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I'm doing tons of other things right now, I can afford to be here too. Downloading MP3s, reading articles, chatting to half a dozen people. Master of multitasking. ENOUGH ABOUT ME,

1. Eliminate Hussein

2. New Democracy

3. Hunt down terrorism sponsor

4. Take away a dictatorship

5. Make 20 million Iraqis happy

6. Send a message to enemies, don't mess

7. One less nuclear threat

8. Grateful neighboring nations

9. Better more reliable oil control

10. Show our superiority

	21-11-2001 07:32									#82
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eh bob thats only 7. three fall under the same category and are the same things just different names.

tsk.....tsk...

	21-11-2001 07:43									#83
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So much for the Right-wingers being united

Just so you know, BOB, I'm all for taking out Hussein. But don't forget, its been tried before. Twice.

	21-11-2001 07:48									#84
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No oppositions in Iraq. Have to dirty are own hands..

aint worth it.

We've been bombing his ass for 10 years to no avail. His power is dug-in like an Alabama tick. Even if we did start bombing.....good luck. Saddam laughs at and shruggs off our bombs. His air-defense switch on radar-fire SAM-and-switch off radar as to not to be bombed by HARM. His tanks hide in Garages...and his fighters in mountains.


Good luck looking for him bob

	21-11-2001 08:32									#85
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quote: Once is a mistake...twice is a tragic mistake

But the "once" part wasn't a mistake.

You could have applied all 10 of those points to the First Gulf War. Or the current war against the Taliban.

Yet militarily we succeeded (or will succeed) with our objectives both times.

The only way is to kill Saddam.

Yes we bombed him for 10 years. But those are specific attacks focused on enforcing the no fly zone, with an occasional punitive measure.

We used concentrated heavy attacks to bomb the crap out of him during the First Gulf War, and he got his ass handed to him in a matter of days once the troops went in.

	21-11-2001 08:36									#86
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This is true......but you plan on killing Saddam how? If bombing doesnt work you have to send in troops. Do you have any idea how much more the Iraqi's will fight us after what we have done to them? You wont be picking up thousands of deserters thats for sure..... It would be very personal for the Iraqi Army having many troops lost family members due to sanctions....they would make the gulf war look like a cake walk.

	21-11-2001 09:10									#87
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Well it's a hard pill to swallow but sending in the ground pounders is really the only way to get him.

There are many people in there that hate the USA, definatley.

One of my coworkers is from Iraq, and he went back home after the war and said he cried many times while there, as the country was just wrecked. He blames the USA for his country's destruction.

But many people also hate Saddam just as much or even more. His whole regime is based out of fear and oppression.

Knowing how bad Iraq is messed up, to me that's even more of a reason that we have to do right by them.

	21-11-2001 14:34									#88
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Okay, now, first of all, I am NOT a pacifist and I'm NOT saying we shouldn't fight back.

Still, I have to ask this question:

Do you people really think you can solve all the problems in the world by just dropping a few bombs every once in a while ?!?

I don't really think you do, but some times that's the impression people get... - which is probably what got you into this mess in the first place.

Just a thought...

	21-11-2001 15:28									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Guardian Okay, now, first of all, I am NOT a pacifist and I'm NOT saying we shouldn't fight back. Still, I have to ask this question: Do you people really think you can solve all the problems in the world by just dropping a few bombs every once in a while ?!? I don't really think you do, but some times that's the impression people get... - which is probably what got you into this mess in the first place. Just a thought...

The real problem is that we think that only a few will do. The greatest wrong that the United States has done in Iraq is not using the total war mentality during the Gulf War. We went in and did as much damage as our allies would allow us to do and then basically left Saddam there to rebuild and to successfully set the US up as the problem with Iraq. No one had the guts to deal with an Iraq without Saddam. They didn't have the guts to deal with the Kurdish problem and they didn't have the guts to deal with a Shiite dominated south. We were gutless in that we did not want to stay there and actuly deal with the awesome responsibilty of helping the Iraqis cope with an Iraq without Saddam. So we just let him stay. It was the easy way out and we are now getting ready to pay dearly for our mistake. Those that were afraid of Afghanistan will find their true nightmare in Iraq. Sustained and prolonged was what Bush said this war would be. Perhaps this is what he had in mind. Maybe JR will go in and have to finish the job that daddy deceided was too politically hard. And this time I don't think our "friends" in the region will be as supportive as in the past.

	21-11-2001 15:47									#90
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What Sprayber said.

Usually, quick solutions aren't the best in the long term.

The harder near term solutions are the ones that pay off exponentially in the long run.

This will be a hard decision, but it must be made.

The Iraqi people deserve it.