20-11-2001 02:36									#1
	Some better diplomatic options Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

While the diplomacy in the game has improved tremendously over past versions of CIV, I feel that there are a couple of things that could use some improvement.

One would be some recognition on the part of the AI of the level of power that other nations command before ending trade agreements. I've had AI civ's refuse to give 1 luxury in exchange for 3 offered, even though I had the power to wipe their civ off the face of the earth in less than 5 turns.

Another suggestion would be to allow you to enforce peace. E.G. do not attack the Germans or I will attack you. This would operate exactly like the 'withdraw units from my territory' command, but instead require the civ to withdraw units from a friendly territory. This would be excellent, especially for scenarios.

Mutual defense pacts work to some extent, but let's say I am the number 1 power , England is number 2, and Germany is number 7, with only a few weak units, but some good resources. If I value Germany as a trading power, and don't want England to attack him, what happens when I establish a mutual defense pact with Germany? Germany goes out and attacks England (with one of his few remaining units) and drags me into a war.

Does the AI ever suggest defense pacts with a player? I would expect one that's threatened by a large buildup on its borders would try to cut a deal for one. But every time I propose one, I have to give up luxuries + techs + a resource to get it.

	20-11-2001 03:13									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think the problem, or rather the situation, here, is that you are very powerful vis-a-vis the AI civs in your games, and that is skewing your view of the diplomacy somewhat.


The AI doesn't want to give you luxuries because they are worth so much more to you - you have more cities. Luxuries generate 1 happy face for each city - if I have 5 cities and you have 20, all other things being equal, any given luxury is worth 4x as much to you. Availability plays a big role, too, but in general you can expect to pay more the larger your empire compared to that you your counterpart.

More flexibility in defense pacts would be nice, but one of the dangers of alliances is that they are entangling - if you want to protect the Germans without actually fighting for them, give them tech or gold, or patrol their coast, or whatever. Being able to give them arms (units) would be ideal.


Also, the AI does offer MPPs to me often, especially when I am powerful and they are threatened.

As a side note, I've also seen them fail to plant a spy. So they do have the same limitation in this part of the game that you do.

	20-11-2001 12:27									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Giaus, I do not disagree with your assement, but the AI does seem to over value their stuff, even maps, unless you have just whacked them or they are in big trouble. I had a large empire and was way out in front. The only one that has had a ship go around the map. They want to trade even up for maps, sometimes they had the nerve to ask for more than even up. Resoource and lux I understand, that is premium. Maps are not, I did not even want their maps. One thing I like about the AI is it is easily side tracked. They ask for MPP and or RoP and I do not want to, I do not refuse, I simply offer something else such as "what would you give for xyz" and they never ask about the pacts.

	20-11-2001 21:57									#4
	support pacts Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Great name, art. By the way are you an importer/exporter or just an exporter? (I can never remember) For what its worth, I have had 2 AIs ask me to sign mutual defense pacts this past game. I have been playing the sell techs to the AI / set science to 100% trick, and I really don't even have much in the way of an army, so I'm not sure what their motivation for asking me to sign is.
One thing that I've noticed with regards to selling techs is that the AIs will never attack you if you have an agreement with them. Therefore, an easy way to avoid conflict is to simply stay ahead in techs and get agreements with everyone (trading techs for gold/turn) Even if you have to pay good $ for a ROP agreement to avoid a conflict, that's OK b/c you can then get that money right back from the AI by selling techs to them. Pretty cool!
IMHO, this is a much more enjoyable way of playing than schlepping 40 legions through 10 squares of jungle to conquer that last cluster of Zulu size 1 cities.

	20-11-2001 21:58									#5
	Re: Some better diplomatic options Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by art_vandelai One would be some recognition on the part of the AI of the level of power that other nations command before ending trade agreements. I've had AI civ's refuse to give 1 luxury in exchange for 3 offered, even though I had the power to wipe their civ off the face of the earth in less than 5 turns.

If you can really take them out in 5 turns, do it! Then you get the luxuries for free. An AI that weak relative to a neighbor AI would be eaten immediately.

quote: Originally posted by art_vandelai Another suggestion would be to allow you to enforce peace. E.G. do not attack the Germans or I will attack you. This would operate exactly like the 'withdraw units from my territory' command, but instead require the civ to withdraw units from a friendly territory. This would be excellent, especially for scenarios.

This, and the transfer of units to allies, would be excellent options. "Make peace with him/her, or fight me" would be a great option.

	21-11-2001 16:00									#6
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Resoource and lux I understand, that is premium. Maps are not, I did not even want their maps.

Maps are actually extremely important to the AI. If they can't see your territory, they don't know where resources are - and everyone needs resources.

I've learned to keep AI civs out of my territory & rarely give maps away. That way they won't declare war on me for saltpeter - they don't know it's inside my borders.