20-11-2001 03:52									#1
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After reading all the complaints on how the AI spreads like lice on a feral cat, I wondered why I never had that problem. It was only after reading some of the "favoured start strategies" that I realised why. I did my start COMPLETELY differently.

City 1:
- Make sure there is at least ONE super food square.
- Irrigate the super food square (you can mine it later if you want). You want QUICK growth at the start. Quick settlers on the ground mean exponential growth later.
- Expansionists build queue (remember you get a scout): worker, scout, warrior, settler, settler.
- Non-expansion build queue: scout, worker, scout, warrior, settler, settler.

GOLDEN GOAL NUMBER 1!
With the two scouts find super food squares ready to settle.
GOLDEN GOAL NUMBER 2!
Workers build roads to that area for quick deployment. After roads to those two areas move workers back for more irrigation.

City 2+:
- After founding you want quick growth.
- Build queue: worker, worker, warrior, settler, settler.
- Remember, you have a super food square so it keeps up. Irrigate it quickly.

All cities
After getting through the initial build queues to two settlers, each city does the following:
- Build queue: Temple, Granary. We want culture to grow as well as a granary for quick growth.

By the time the granary is finished in the first three cities, you should have the next few cities producing the two initial settlers. Split the granary cities into quick growth cities, and slow growth cities.
- Quick grow cities build queue: settler, settler, settler (back to size 1/2).
- Slow grow cities build queue: worker, worker, worker (back to size 1).

Once those cities are back to size 1 I build the following (defense needed by now): defender, attacker, wonder. (Pyramids is a good one first up for the granarys).

All cities other than the first 3:
After building the settlers/workers back to size 1/2, I set the city to build: defender, attacker, improv, improv.

Once the two improvs are complete, build settlers/workers back to size 1/2.

ETC!

By following this method, by the year 0, I've had twice as many cities as the next AI. My first three cities all super-food squares.

Notes about this method:
- You WILL need to build courthouses to stem corruption, though it's not all that bad since the cities are kept down to sizes 1-8.
- You keep your culture growing for the all important filling in of gaps.
- Your army grows with the size of your empire.
- You end up with HEAPS of workers. You can spread roads/irrigation/mines around like maggots on rotten meat.
- You can get twice as many cities than the next best AI.

Good luck, hope this is usefull.

	20-11-2001 04:26									#2
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Kewl. So by a super-food square, you mean one with cows or wheat on it??

	20-11-2001 05:21									#3
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going to check this strat out right now on regent.

on satyas world map with fascism mod on snoopys graphics and the other fellow's (sorry forgot his name ;P) strat resources markers.

apolyton rules made my civ3 experience so much better ;P

	20-11-2001 06:30									#4
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That irrigation on the superfood square doesn't help in Despotism, does it?

	20-11-2001 06:39									#5
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But if you don't have a superkewl food square

Your strategy isn't. Esp. as it lacks any rush building by killing population AND it talks of irrigation in despotism...

Dynamic it ain't...PLUS the "expansion" of lice on a feral cat isn't that quick compared to what the A.I does

	20-11-2001 06:47									#6
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Who's ever in despotism that long with Monarchy/Republic just a few short advances away anyway? I'm not. I always beeline to Monarchy and get out ASAP. You only need to irrigate a couple of squares for each city and then the workers move off to network the new cities and resources. When you hit Monarchy/Republic you don't need to waste valuable time going back all that way to the inner cities. *shrug* Just my way of playin' I suppose. Saves me a lot of time not having to go back 'n forth.

	20-11-2001 17:47									#7
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best start = english.

why? pottery - explorer.

settle, mine a 2food 1shield grass or better depending on whats available. Go straight for warrior followed by granary.

Hope you find a settler hut. And mine a second 2food 1shield grass. You now can produce a settler in the exact time it takes to grow twice. 10 turns.

Your build que should look like this

warrior, warrior, gran (hurried), settler, settler, settler, settler, settler. duh. You want speed.

Second city, exactly the same. Settle it very close, don't get greedy and run for distant resources. Yet. Once your second granary is up I usually have my 3rd or 4th town built. I'm sure this part could use optimization. I use these to pump warriors for placement in the two settlers produced every 10 turns. Or 1 every 5. Depending on space, 3 settler pumping cities, and the rest producing what ever else you want keeps you in good shape.

Mix it up as you need, sometimes another scout is worthwhile if you got someone north and you think someone is south, or something.

Given smooth land, I can pull ahead slightly from most monarch ai with this (just need 1 warrior, or don't depending on if you hurry). An emperor AI beats me a little bit, but I usually stay pretty even at around city 8 I slow down more then the computer here. It all depends on luck/terrain terrain and stuff. Luxuries make life easier, since you can skip the warrior. And just go straight for granaries.

The differance here is the AI just pumps from one city, and cheats I think. So you usually fall behind a little, then catch up around city 4.

Same build more or less can be used for anyone, just make sure you quickly get out those warriors to make contact or find a hut and get pottery. The granary hurdle is the key.

Mix in workers as needed. Just don't develop what you don't need. Get the cities down first. Its important though that you don't waste turns waiting for the city to grow. It doesn't let you know your wasting them. Just waits patiently. Count turns.

Last edited by jack_frost on 20-11-2001 at 17:56

	20-11-2001 18:09									#8
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I'd have to agree that relying on "super food" squares is not a strategy so much as adapting to the local environment. One game I was able to place my second city adjacent to 3 tiles of wheat enhanced flood plain. Even under despotism these could produce 4 food. It supplied almost all my settlers for the entirety of the rest of the game and never needed a granary but I would not build a start strategy around being lucky like that again. The capital itself had zero "super" tiles to take advantage of.

	20-11-2001 18:57									#9
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My only question is how you're bulding scouts with a non-expansionist civ. You can't do it.

	20-11-2001 19:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Gaius Marius That irrigation on the superfood square doesn't help in Despotism, does it?

Yes it will still add one food. Remember superfood squares normally give 4, under despotism it will give 3, irrigating it will put it back to 4. (would normally give 5)

	21-11-2001 03:18									#11
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quote: Yes it will still add one food. Remember superfood squares normally give 4, under despotism it will give 3, irrigating it will put it back to 4. (would normally give 5)

HA! KittenOfChaos. I knew I wasn't "in the head". Despostism irrigation returns TWO food on grass/plains and FOUR on super-food squares.

quote: My only question is how you're bulding scouts with a non-expansionist civ. You can't do it.

You know I meant build a unit to "scout" out with.

I've started using workers to scout out the area around me now, cuz if I find a clump of resources you can just set them on auto-road-to-****. Pull in those luxuries quicker to keep the pops happier. Stalls having to build a temple a little longer. Of course, NEVER pop a hut with a worker. Sure way to lose him.

	22-11-2001 02:08									#12
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You muppet...you get 2 food from grassland WITHOUT irrigation...

irrigating grassland at despotism makes 2 food..AS DOES NOT irrigating it...At monarchy and above governments you'll produce a huge amount of food in excess to this.

As for the plains...2 food AFTER irrigation isn't anything to write home about and is time consuming and requires workers in sufficent number to do this and link by road your new cities (thus compromises ARE being made.

As for the super-food square...well, yes mr restart till I get it you always get one of those.

Your strat ain't because any moron can utilise a super-food resource...a strat is where you approach the game a certain way to solve problems not just munch it because you have a certain resource.

Just because someone else said "That irrigation on the superfood square doesn't help in Despotism, does it?" doesn't mean I did...you muppet.

My gripe is that food production in despotism is low -2 food excluding super-kewl squares...p.s YOU CAN'T irrigate flood plains- and that you think you help by talking of utilising a resource that you were LUCKY in having.

	22-11-2001 03:37									#13
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quote: You muppet...

Can I be Beaker? I always wanted to be Beaker.

KittenOfChaos:
As I stated earlier on....... "Just my way of playin." I beeline to Monarchy, and as Egypt it's only 3 advances away. Doesn't take long to change gov. I just see a time-saver in irrigating a few squares (as industrious the time's irrelevant) around the core-cities so I don't have to run back and do 'em.

As for being a strat or not, well most of the time you don't get a super-food square near you. But how often is it that you DON'T have a couple of super-food squares within 6 tiles of ya capital? Not very from my experience.

	22-11-2001 11:17									#14
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Tech wise I make a bee-line for literacy (so as to get the Great Library)...then I can turn my money to luxuries or gold as required...the A.I can research for me!

I know it doesn't last that long that is why I go for it as soon as possible...and I know it does detract from expansion if you build an early wonder, but I think it is worth it at the higher levels...

	22-11-2001 16:33									#15
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quote: Originally posted by kittenOFchaos My gripe is that food production in despotism is low -2 food excluding super-kewl squares...p.s YOU CAN'T irrigate flood plains- and that you think you help by talking of utilising a resource that you were LUCKY in having.

You CAN irrigate flood plains. These tiles qualify as one of the few suited for extra food under despotism. Without irrigation they deliver 2 food, with irrigation 3. Hella sweet considering they usually appear in groups alongside rivers that allow your city to balloon without aquaduct whining.

I do agree the threads' "strategy" isn't very impressive relying so much on special tiles (flood plains would even be secfond-best in this vein).

	22-11-2001 17:01									#16
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I always make my worker join my first city, because terrain improvements are pretty useless at the beginning, but you get a headstart due to your instant size 2 city.

	22-11-2001 18:27									#17
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quote: Originally posted by SanPellegrino I always make my worker join my first city, because terrain improvements are pretty useless at the beginning, but you get a headstart due to your instant size 2 city.

Due to the lack of any tile improvements, the revenue is most likely restricted to an extra shield. (In addition, the 2nd citizen is unhappy under Emperor+, and thus completely useless until the first MP hits.)

This extra shield does not compensate for the trade you can get by building 2 roads in your radius (easily feasible mostly) and, more importantly, from building that road to the spot where you'll build the next city -which gets extra trade too AND which is founded quickly as the settlers moves faster over the road.