20-11-2001 15:12									#1
	****! It's even frustrating on chieftain! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

G'day,
I got Civ III in the post today, and so far it seems okay, except that I'm in Chieftain and practically every Civ that I have contact with has decided to band up against me! And I talking about a massed invasion. Now, I'm glad that the AI's got some brains, but.... how the **** do I use mine and get rid of all these bastards?

	20-11-2001 15:19									#2
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Heh heh...I had the same problem at first. As you meet them try and get on their good side. Trade world maps with them, technologies if you feel like it. If one declares war on you make sure your on the good side of someone close to the Civ you're at war with. They can be played against each other. You have to be devious.

I do agree that Chieftain is too hard. With six difficulties, there should be one you can beat up on.

	20-11-2001 15:23									#3
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I must agree, Civ 3's AI does put up a fight and attaxk. My only wonder is they always gang up on the human player

	20-11-2001 15:37									#4
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hehe, play an easier level

I do think chieftan should have a less aggressive ai, but you should easily get a tech lead on them.

And they aren't supposed to gang up on the human player (supposedly they can't tell the difference)

My theory on this is that it is based on the # of units you have and your world map. If they see you are weak, they will pounce on you. If your territory stands in their way, they will pounce on you.

conclusion: build more unit to intimidate the ai with

	20-11-2001 15:40									#5
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They don't always gang up on the human player. They do like to gang up though, so you just better make sure it's not you they decide to pick on.

At least on the lower difficulty levels, it's pretty easy to stay on polite terms with other civs. Trade maps, trade techs (which was something I almost never did in Civ2), set up trade agreements. Especially late in the game the AI is often glad to pay a significant sum of gold per turn for luxuries; accept it, maybe even tone it down by 2-3 gold/turn, and they'll like you for giving them a good deal -- and meanwhile, either build up your army or crank up your science spending since you've got cash flowing in from abroad.

	20-11-2001 16:36									#6
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hey, I see that a lot of people are releasing Game Balancing Patches.... which one is the best?

	20-11-2001 16:45									#7
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Are we playing the same game?? I must admit im still on my first civ3 game (chieftain as babylonian) but the AI is acting rather weak. It doesnt attack me much and ive got riflemen and cavalry while the persians havent really gotten new units since..well ever. Theyre still on warriors and immortals. Their cities are rarely defended with more than 3 spearmen and are pretty easy to take. The civs on the other continents are even more pathetic. The largest chinese city is 6! Quite early on my cities was 12 and ive been waiting for sanitation or whatever you need now for ages (literally). Its still better than civ2 was on chieftain though but its far from as fierce as reading this forum let me believe.

	20-11-2001 16:57									#8
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IMO Chieftain is a *LOT* easier than Warlord. On my first Chieftain game, I was fighting the Russians for Uranium (way before they ever would've known what to use those glowing green rocks for), and I was overrunning their pikemen with tanks.

So far, Warlord looks like an entirely different animal. I've seen my neighbors go to war late in the game and start sailing away with aircraft carriers protected by battleships, patrol their borders with tanks or mech. infantry and I even suspect that one civ used nukes (ICBMs or transported tactical ones).

	20-11-2001 17:32									#9
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I've played a few games on Warlord and the AI performs pretty well. They are as advanced as I am and their armies are strong too. And yes, the AI likes to gang up, so make sure they gang up with you!

	20-11-2001 18:36									#10
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IMHO the ganging-up has got something to do with culture too.
i.e. if your leading they won'..........

	20-11-2001 19:00									#11
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From what I have seen, if you play a game with a large number of AI opponents their relative power levels will be distributed on a curve - i.e. there will be a couple of strong ones, a bunch of middling ones, and one or two ripe for smashing...

The AI "massing" behavior seems to occur when the "strong" AI's find themselves with a victim within reach...if that victim is you, you're toast, and the rest of the AI's will jump on for the ride.

In one game by map-trading I uncovered the entire map VERY early and got to watch the strong AI's proceed with their surgery. The English, Germans and French banded together basically from the opening round. They would all declare war on the same opponent in the same turn, they had MPP's, and they sliced up first the Russians, then the Chinese, and then the Americans, each taking about a third of the cities. If I had been on their continent I'm sure they would have sliced me up too.

Blithely watching AI vs AI realpolitik was a lot of fun. I'm winning this game, but I'm not the "prime mover" of history here - the starring role seems to go to Bismarck. I'm in a strange situation, since it's not corruption keeping me from expanding more, it's the looming threat of diplomatic victory...I have to keep the AI's in my corner of the world in the game, because if I wipe out the ones that are left, I lose their "abstention" votes at the UN meeting and Bismarck wins a diplomatic victory. The only way around this is to attack Germany directly, and since we both have ICBM's I think that would get a little ugly.

	20-11-2001 19:10									#12
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I'm playing my second game at Chieftan level and in both games the AI hasn't ganged up on me at all. It's a little too peaceful, in fact. My next game will be on a higher level for sure. I think the reason the AI leaves me alone is that my culture is much higher than theirs. I can even tell them to go get bent when they threaten me and they reply, "Hey, I respect a man with guts. Go in peace." They don't seem to be attacking each other either. Maybe that will all change in a hurry when I move up a level.

	20-11-2001 19:26									#13
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The computer nations seem to get pretty good intelligence about your status even without using espionage. If your army is small, they will sense it. If you are technologically weak, they will know. If you can (out)match them in either and stay close in the other then they will fear/respect you enough to leave you alone. Superior tech is nothing if the civ reckons it outnumbers you 4:1.

Once the option becomes available, having mutual protection pacts with players that border potential hostiles can help divert and weaken attacks, should they come. Lastly, waltzing your workers unprotected up to the border and innocently irrigating as if there is nothign to be scared of is a sure way of tempting a previously peaceful civ to have avaricious thoughts

	20-11-2001 19:48									#14
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You are right. Chieftain should be an "impossible to lose" level.
It is much closer to the Prince level in CivII.

If you can get your neighbors to fight each other you stand a chance, otherwise, it will be a very short game.

	20-11-2001 20:29									#15
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They are also nicer to you if you have an embassy with them, your goverment type matters, and if your actively trading with them.

	20-11-2001 20:56									#16
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The key transition Civ II players have to make is their diplomatic relations with other Civs. You can't afford to live in splendid isolation any more. Every turn you should be considering if there is anything you need to talk to them about.

	20-11-2001 21:47									#17
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I'll have to admit that I'm also frustrated on chieftain level. In Civ II I play on the king level, but now it's like playing prince in Civ II, when playing chieftain in Civ III. My British empire failed, the current German civ isn't going well too. But at least I'm alive with only 2 cities.

Apparently I'll have to learn Civ III from A to Z, and not just to easily change from Civ II to Civ III on the same level (king).

	20-11-2001 22:05									#18
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The key is knowing that you have to relearn it. The first week I had the game I kept playing on prince and kept getting hammered because I was convinced I could learn the changes on the run. I backed up to warlord/chieftain, learned the tricks and AI, and now am able to win on any level. It also helped to watch the build order of the computer on emperor level

	20-11-2001 22:30									#19
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What got me into trouble on my first Chieftain game was the AI's tendancy to rapidly expand. The AI would build cities in stoopid spots on the borders of my island nation so, I naturally take the cities out. Well eventually they were all pissed at me, and with the new combat system and war weariness, waging extended wars was impossible. I gave up around 1550 AD and started a new game. I adopted the Cultural concept of letting the AI build where he wants and soon my culture gobbles them up .
The big lesson I leared was that Civ III was not Civ II.

P.S. had to disable Culture Victory for Warloard and Chieftain level, my games always ended before Space Race.

	21-11-2001 01:14									#20
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as been pointed out the ai senses your military strength.

I believe the above statement is the most important factor in the game

I repeat the most important factor.

the rest of the game rests on the size of your gun . I mean military.

Even if you play peaceful you need a very large military. If you have a small one, the ai will punish you for being weak. And a large military helps immensely in diplomatic actions.

my only loss came from having too small a military. I said no to the ai, and have 4 of them declare war on me in about 10 turns. You cannot say no to the ai demands if your military is weak.

build more units

	21-11-2001 02:55									#21
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I think maybe the reason the others civs seem to leave me alone is because im way ahead of them in culture. Playing as the babylonians seem to have been a lucky first choice. As much as they like me they seem eager enough to gang up on my enemies tho. France, China and Russia all declared war on my enemy the Persians in about 3 turns and soon huge armadas of triremes (called something else now..whatever) from all 3 nations were leaving towards a single persian city. I have never seen that in any other game let alone a turnbased! Im really impressed by the AI even if this is my first game and im only on chieftain. This game is awesome. The game has a few bugs and annoying glitches in the interface but all games do. Atleast it doesnt have the huge bug that i felt civ2 and cctp1 & 2 had...it couldnt beat u...never even came close...the damn thing just wouldnt attack with forces larger than 3 units and all the games was pretty much the same. I cant wait to start my next game on warlord!!!

	21-11-2001 03:52									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Ludwig The AI "massing" behavior seems to occur when the "strong" AI's find themselves with a victim within reach...if that victim is you, you're toast, and the rest of the AI's will jump on for the ride.

I noticed this as well in my first Chieftain game as the Egyptians. Fortunately, I wasn't the victim when the Romans, Greeks and Chinese decided to gang up on the Babylonians. I then jumped on for the ride and finished up taking most of the Babylonians' territory.

If the AI's are Polite or Gracious towards you, and you have good culture, they are less likely to attack you and will regard you more favourably in general. I had a huge tech lead, and I used it to give out generous gifts to the AI's every hour or so of play.

I was going for a culture victory, but finished up with a diplomatic victory. I built the United Nations, got the option to call a vote for Sec-Gen, and won when all but 2 of the AI's voted for me. (The Greeks voted for themselves, and the Babylonians abstained because they were still unhappy about my taking all their land).

	21-11-2001 04:43									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident build more units

Give me more soldiers, noble leader, that they may sheath their swords in the beating hearts of our enemies!

	21-11-2001 05:29									#24
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My gut feeling about the solution for most above problems is : Attack!!!

The AI is a better attacker than defender; you have to throw it off balance.

Personally, I have mastered Regent, but am still struggling at Monarch.

	21-11-2001 06:19									#25
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The AI do tend to gang up on whoever is the weakest civ at the time. In my latest game, the Romans declared war on me. Fearing my civ being picked on by everyone, I asked the Persians to declare war on the Romans as well. The next turn, all the other AI noticed that the Romans were being attacked by two civilizations. ALL FIVE then declared war on the Romans.

This stopped them attacking me, even though I was militarily weak.

	21-11-2001 06:20									#26
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Im in my second game and Ive noticed a huge difference between CH and WL.
But I have been climbing the points charts and now stand at 2nd place ( after Rome ,India,Japan and France gang-raped the leader Cleo. It took them only about 5 turns too )
I barely had time to con her out of a nice little city on the coast complete with a rubber tile for some worthless techs and a peace treaty.
Soon ill be in first .But I dought they will try that with me.
My first panzers just rolled out of the factories