20-11-2001 16:11									#1
	What does it take to get a sea route? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't understand. I traded maps with the french and english and I see their harbors and I have several harbors and still no sea route to trade luxuries.

I then sent a galley to personally connect each harbor and still I get the message that I can't trade luxuries because no sea route. Is it because my galley crossed an ocean? But then it makes no sense because the Iroquois who are also separated by the same ocean can trade luxuries with me over the sea route...

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!

	20-11-2001 16:17									#2
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I think your capitols need to have the harbour. Both yours and his capitol must have harbour (or airport for later on)

and of course make sure the luxery is connected to your capitol via roads.

	20-11-2001 16:23									#3
	The phantom of the sea route Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've had the same problem. I had cities on both sides of a large sea, one that can't be crossed by Galleys, and the existence of Harbors did not give me access to resources in my home continent. The book says you've got to have Harbors 'in the same sea' as another Harbor. I guess this means one that can be traversed by a Galley. This is annoying as hell. If you can get there by Galley (using a roundabout path) to establish a colony, you damn well better have a sea route between your home continent and the colony. I use the route to ferry Veteren units, Settlers, and Workers to my colony, but I can't establish a supply route?? Makes NOOOO sense. And then I have to put up with Corruption so bad that I can't build ANYTHING? I think they designed this game to prevent the establishment of colonies. I wonder how the British established their empire. They wouldn't have been able to do it under the CivIII rules!!

	20-11-2001 16:25									#4
	Harbor in capital?? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Suppose your capital has no access to the sea? Then what???? I've played about 10 games so far, and my capital rarely has access to the sea. Such a requirement would be assinine!!!

	20-11-2001 16:32									#5
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As far as I can remember, this is how it goes:

You can trade stuff via sea routes if your capital has access to a harbor, i.e. it either has one itself or it is connected to one via a road.

Before you invent Astronomy, you can only trade with civilizations whom you can reach through Shore tiles. This is not exactly the same thing as the civs you can reach with a galley risk-free; the galley only needs to _end_ its turn in a Shore tile, whereas I believe these first trade routes have to go _entirely_ through Shore tiles.

When you get Astronomy, you can trade with civs you can reach via Sea tiles, and when you get Navigation, you can use Ocean tiles and trade with anyone who has a harbor.

	20-11-2001 16:42									#6
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Requisites for having a trade route:

- Harbor in any city connected by roads to the trading resource (luxury or strategic);
- If the route is under coastal waters no problem;
- If the route needs to cross sea tiles both civilizations need to have discovered Astronomy;
- If the route needs to cross ocean tiles both civilizations need to have discovered Navigation;

NOTE: Destinatary Civilization(s) must not have that resource already (or they won't need it)!

Does this helps?
_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	20-11-2001 16:50									#7
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Can you trade a resource which is connected to a harbor but not to your capital?

BTW, it seems like you can use a friendly civ's harbors for at least the transportation of resources between your own cities. I had two towns in a small island where the Romans had put a city as well. All of these were connected by a road, and when the Romans built a harbor, my towns got my civ's normal luxuries and were able to build pikemen.

	20-11-2001 16:55									#8
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PLUS: I believe you also need to have an embassy with that other nation in order to be able to trade with them at all!

To be able to establish an embassy with them, your capitol must be connected to theirs, by road or by harbo(u)r.

	20-11-2001 17:13									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Kekkonen Can you trade a resource which is connected to a harbor but not to your capital?

And the capital is not connected to any harbor?

Good question! Don't know the answer, but i'll try to see it!

quote: Originally posted by Campmajor! To be able to establish an embassy with them, your capitol must be connected to theirs, by road or by harbo(u)r.

...or by airport!!
_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	20-11-2001 17:19									#10
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It's not a situation that often arises, JayKay; at least all my roads tend to lead to Rome/Delhi/Moscow/Younameit.

BTW, I don't think you need an embassy for trading. It looks like I'm usually trading something with just about everyone (luxuries, if nothing else), but I don't always remember to establish embassies with every civ on the planet.

	20-11-2001 17:21									#11
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quote: Originally posted by JayKay ...or by airport!!

Agreed, but I have not been in modern times yet...

Where do I find enough time and sleep?

	20-11-2001 17:27									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Kekkonen It's not a situation that often arises, JayKay; at least all my roads tend to lead to Rome/Delhi/Moscow/Younameit.

I'm sorry! I got lost! What situation?

quote: Originally posted by Kekkonen BTW, I don't think you need an embassy for trading. It looks like I'm usually trading something with just about everyone (luxuries, if nothing else), but I don't always remember to establish embassies with every civ on the planet.

Yes, that's true! I don't remember neither!
_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	20-11-2001 18:03									#13
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quote: Originally posted by JayKay I'm sorry! I got lost! What situation?

A situation where there's a resource that is connected to a harbor but not to your capital.

	20-11-2001 19:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by campmajor! To be able to establish an embassy with them, your capitol must be connected to theirs, by road or by harbo(u)r.

This is incorrect. All you need is the advance "Writing". Then double click on the star icon beside your capital. This will bring you to the screen where you can pay to establish an embassy.

I've used this on many occasions to find the location of an enemy capital. (you get a free investigate city on the AI's capital when you establish an embassy, it includes the terrain in the city radius)

	20-11-2001 19:39									#15
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Thanks I didn't know you needed astronomy and navigation. That explains what I was missing! Thanks again!

	20-11-2001 20:16									#16
	Lighthouse and trading Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I am not 100% certain but I believe possessing the great lighthouse wonder also allows you to trade resources to any civ with a harbor connected to the resource via roads(presuming you yourself have a harbor. I base this on a game I am playing in which I was isolated on an island with no shore line connections to the main continent w/ 7 other civs on it and once I discovered the lighthouse we were able to trade luxuries and later strategic resources prior to my discovering navigation and astrononmy.

I will do some more testing over the weekend to verify this.

	20-11-2001 21:00									#17
	Re: Lighthouse and trading Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sauron07 I am not 100% certain but I believe possessing the great lighthouse wonder also allows you to trade resources to any civ with a harbor connected to the resource via roads(presuming you yourself have a harbor. I base this on a game I am playing in which I was isolated on an island with no shore line connections to the main continent w/ 7 other civs on it and once I discovered the lighthouse we were able to trade luxuries and later strategic resources prior to my discovering navigation and astrononmy. I will do some more testing over the weekend to verify this.

I think you are partially true!

One of the effect of the great lighthouse is that ships can safely cross sea squares! This is also one of the effects of Navigation! So...it could mean that you can trade resources through harbors in trade routes crossing sea squares (but never the ones that cross ocean squares) after building the Great Lighthouse!
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Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	21-11-2001 17:00									#18
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Thoth This is incorrect. All you need is the advance "Writing". Then double click on the star icon beside your capital. This will bring you to the screen where you can pay to establish an embassy.

Well, in one game I was not able to establish embassies with all civs when discovering writing. At that time I did not have harbors or wasn't connected to some of them by road. I got a message that my capitol wasn't connected to their capitol.

I assume you probably have harbors and rival cis have that too, so you are connected to them by sea route!

Later I did have a harbor and all civs on the continent were connected by road. At that time I established an embassy with them like you said by doubleclicking on the star icon of my capitol.

Also I could not trade resources with some of them before having an embassy. In the foreign advisor screen it said for some civs active trade, for some possible trade and for some it said neither!