20-11-2001 22:48									#1
	Mighty Bradman - PLEASE give us a DATE Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Could u tell us (the loyal Mac gamers) what the excact date will be that Civ III will be in the store (or atleast a month?) I would be very very very very thankfull....

	20-11-2001 23:13									#2
	Tired of ads?

Let me quote comp.sys.mac.games.strategy here:

In article <01HW.B7F9AFA50013944A066D1670@news.swcp.com>,
Balveda wrote:

>Then why say anything at all then? What's the point of saying "Coming Soon"
>if you can't tell us what "soon" means? Just keep quiet about it and when
>it's ready release it otherwise you just look like a jerk.

To recap, a few facts:

1) Aspyr/MacSoft holds the porting/publishing contract on Civ III.

2) Brad Oliver is one of Aspyr/MacSoft's top coders and had previously
worked on SMAC/SMAX.

3) Given 1 and 2, Brad Oliver is the most likely person to be assigned to
porting Civ III.

4) Brad Oliver is a regular participant of this NG.

5) People know Brad Oliver is a regular participant of this NG.

6) Given 3, 4, and 5, someone here specifically asked Brad if he could
comment on Civ III.

7) Brad Oliver is strictly a coder who lurks here out of his own goodwill
and is not an official representative of Aspyr/MacSoft.

8) Brad Oliver, being the nice guy that he is, gave the only answer that
he could: "Coming Soon."

9) Long-time Mac gamers and NG regulars know "Coming Soon" to mean "We're
working on the port, we have no definite release date, we don't have the
resources to waste on supporting a buggy, premature release so it will be
done when it's done." (Credits to Blizzard's Brian Love.)

10) Given 6, 7, 8, and 9, only a loud-mouthed jackass would berate Brad
for being a nice guy and giving the only answer he could, an answer which
the rest of us understand perfectly well.

Hope this helps.

	20-11-2001 23:59									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Everyone:

I am more than willing to wait months for a bug-free port of Civ III to the Macintosh.

It's too bad that the PC version fell victim to the "rush," so to speak, and I see no reason why the Macintosh version should have the same indignity put onto its shoulders. Patience is a virtue in this case. Make good use of it; I am by remaining "hooked" on Civ II.

My wishes for best of luck to the porting team.

CYBERAmazon

	21-11-2001 00:12									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Damn chill guys I was just curious... and if I have to wait 6 months so be it but I was just curious...

	21-11-2001 23:11									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

he's already said it'll probobly be out in spring.

have you read any other threads in this forum before you made this thread?

	21-11-2001 23:38									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

KOH:

Hmm ... I don't see anyone really freaking out in the thread. For that atmosphere, take a trip to the Civ III forums or, perhaps, the OT forum.

CYBERAmazon

	25-11-2001 05:21									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

if the game wasn't sent to market when it was,there would probably be no mac port at all.You can't port something that doesn't exist.Capitol.Thats the bottom line.

btw...some wizs have civ3 running on an emulator.Thats right an emulator.I can't beleive it.Maybe you don't need a mac version

	25-11-2001 06:46									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey Smash, is civ3 decent on your dell? aside from the bugs

	25-11-2001 10:47									#9
	Suffering from ads?

yes its decent.It ain't no civ2 though.Everything has been simplified.
I haven't had any bug problems to speak of.I think many of the "bugs" are actually features.
I think it will look great on the mac.....civ2 looks much better on mac than pc.
There is alot of left and right clicking.Shift and control with a key type stuff.That might not be as good.With a 2 button mouse you can play entirely with the mouse.That part of the game is well laid out.
I kinda feel like I am playin a half finished game.
...I guess I am

	25-11-2001 20:49									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Simplified in a bad way? Tech tree's been streamlined to the ground, or micro management is out the door at last?

	25-11-2001 22:06									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Smash yes its decent.It ain't no civ2 though.Everything has been simplified. I haven't had any bug problems to speak of.I think many of the "bugs" are actually features. I think it will look great on the mac.....civ2 looks much better on mac than pc. There is alot of left and right clicking.Shift and control with a key type stuff.That might not be as good.With a 2 button mouse you can play entirely with the mouse.That part of the game is well laid out. I kinda feel like I am playin a half finished game. ...I guess I am

you haven't experianced the bomber bug? where your fighters can't stop them?


that seems like the worst bug i've heard of on the civ3 forums

	26-11-2001 02:09									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hehehe..the bomber bug is easy to avoid.You should be able to control any map with:a-swordsman and later b-knights.Thats it.
I took one game to "modern" times but I couldn't get the ai to fight with aircraft.My embassys showed they had them...but..no sightings.I provoked,I did espionage,trespassing,unreasonable demands...they wouldn't attack with the aircraft.They did attack with mounted units ...those units don't do to well when bombarded to red by cannons
The ai still can't fight very well.It will send lots more units..but the result is the same.A few units,handled by a human can easily fend off any offensive attacks.
The ai defends it's cities very poorly.The most I have seen is 4 units in a capitol.It seems to have an uncontrollable urge to capture workers.Nothing wrong with that plan,cept it leaves it's crack units as sitting ducks just to capture a lowly worker.I'll trade 3 workers for 10 cavalry any day.

Simplified--my biggest dissapointment is the new trade system.You just build a road to some wine and every city connected by a road gets wine.Offshore you just build a harbor.
Or you trade for resources.There is no more managing of a trading company.If you don't fight,there is little to do with units.
They gave us a bunch more boats,but there is even less use for them than in civ2.
They could have removed or altered the caravan bonus...something..anything.But to totally eliminate it was a huge mistake..imo
One thing they did get right in this area is the strategic resources.Simply discovering a tech and new units is no good if you don't have the resources to build anything.IE: you can't build muskets without saltpeter.If you don't have any.....this is one gem in the game.You must trade for it or....go out and take it!
While this would be awful for Multiplay,it is an interesting twist for solo play.
The combat system needs some tweaking.I am getting a few of the civ1 results.Notably,an aircraft carrier sunk by a galley and a modern armor defeated by a lowly obsolete pikeman.If units from similiar ages go at it,it seems ok.But when you get a "mismatch" ..well it ain't a mismatch at all.For now,I have stopped upgrading units past muskets...whats the use?

Another thing that has changed for the bad is exploration.The ai expands so fast,there is nothing left to explore very quickly.Maps are filled.All the ai wants to do early,is build cities.Anywhere and everywhere.There are way less huts...I don't know....clearing the black was a big part of civ2.

Its good.But it could have been so much better.Way too much CtP and SMAC in the game.Its seems civ2 players were almost completely ignored.

	26-11-2001 09:19									#13
	Remove this text

wow, they don't use aircraft? i remember yang using aircraft on my in smac non stop. wondered what they screwed up there

	26-11-2001 13:02									#14
	Tired of ads?

not 1.Beats me why.I was playing a "lets see everthing first" type game at the regent level....maybe that had something to do with it.
I nuked every capitol to see and they did respond with 2 different civs nuking 8 cities.I wouldn't exactly call that brilliant ai,but at least they will respond in kind.

My bombers and fighters seem to miss ALOT.I tryed recog and then bomb,but it didn't seem to make any difference.

But a mac version won't have any of the "bugs"...the real ones anyway

If ain't too big an upgrade to my g3,and it is reasonably priced(pc version only 49.99 Canadian-.63 to 1 US dollar at purchase+$35 US)then I'll probably pick it up.

	27-11-2001 03:22									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What Dell system did you buy? 4300? 8300? SS? specs? notice any slow scrolling or framerate drops?

just curious, especially whether or not your PC uses SDRAM or RDRAM. do tell.

Last edited by Wiglaf on 27-11-2001 at 03:36

	27-11-2001 06:43									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

4300..anything up the ladder was more than I want/need.
sdram

No scrolling problems either.I have no idea why you would want to scroll far enough to notice.Like civ2,there is a small map window....clicking that is much more efficient.

I think i avoided the frame refresh rate thing problem by going with the cheapo 16mb card.The 32 they offered is the exact one that people had problems with.I'm sure it would have shipped with the newest,civ3 suspect drivers.

Within 30 minutes of it arriving,I was playing civ3.Just plug this,plug that,install,successful...lets rock.

just like a MAC

	27-11-2001 07:28									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The ATI 16 isn't a "cheapo" video card (it's actually what most iMacs are now shipping with ), although it obviously isn't top of the line. personally, if I were you, I'd get a Geforce 2 Pro off pricewatch when you want to play somethin that doesn't run on your current setup (should be around $40 mid next year). rule of thumb in the computer world: don't upgrade it until you need to. of course, to ensure compatability with whatever you want to run, always check here first.

quote: I think i avoided the frame refresh rate thing problem by going with the cheapo 16mb card.The 32 they offered is the exact one that people had problems with.I'm sure it would have shipped with the newest,civ3 suspect drivers.

Probably. Hopefully the patch next week will fix that, but newer vid cards, especially with XP (you know MS ), tend to have that problem in all areas of software.

	08-12-2001 06:53									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by illiria Let me quote comp.sys.mac.games.strategy here: In article <01HW.B7F9AFA50013944A066D1670@news.swcp.com>, Balveda wrote: >Then why say anything at all then? What's the point of saying "Coming Soon" >if you can't tell us what "soon" means? Just keep quiet about it and when >it's ready release it otherwise you just look like a jerk. To recap, a few facts: 1) Aspyr/MacSoft holds the porting/publishing contract on Civ III.

Point of order, Aspyr has nothing to do with the port. Both MacSoft and Aspyr are publishers, and we both contract the services of Westlake Interactive, where Brad and John (the other Civ 3 for Mac programmer) work.

As far as the release date, our current official estimate is February, and Brad and John have been doing a great job, so that's easily within reach.

	08-12-2001 21:04									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

these guys make me feel fortunate to be a mac user


thanks, Nate!

	10-12-2001 10:14									#20
	Put an end to popups!

Everyone:

If it takes longer to release the Mac port of Civ III due to the number of PC patches that have to be incorporated into the Mac product, then so be it. Better to get the product right the first time around rather than having to patch and re-patch it, IMHO.

With that in mind, I can wait until March or April (or even May) of 2002.

CYBERAmazon

	18-12-2001 23:24									#21
	Getting it right over on time Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Nate Birkholz ...our current official estimate is February, and Brad and John have been doing a great job, so that's easily within reach.

Thanks to Nate and Brad for appearing in these forums, of their own good will.

I have noticed a trend in those CivIII Mac hopefuls posting here, and I'd like to add my voice to the trend.

Please, PLEASE do not release a bug (and ill-considered feature)-riddled product like Firaxis did for the PC version. The latter, from all notices, appears to be no better then a beta, and the public should not be expected to pay money for a beta. I am dying to get the game as an ardent CivII fan, but I will wait patiently while a well-tested port is being developed. I loved the CivII Mac port--having found it very stable and largely bug-free.

I hope this "port", will be more a fix 'n port, incorporating the feedback from the PC gamers to the initial release and 1st firaxis patch.

I specifically DO NOT want to see the new version have the following bugs reported in the PC version:

1) 98% corruption, with courthouses not working
2) Incorrectly operating air attacks
3) Combat that *frequently* allows triremes to beat battleships and warriors to defeat mechanized infantry. I understand that we only have to look to Afghanistan to see cavalry defeat Russian tanks, but this should occur specifically in terrain unfavorable to tanks, and with marked numerical/morale superiority in the lower-tech units. This may be a feature, rather than a bug, but I consider it a very poorly-considered one if so.

Please Brad & John: don't rush, incorporate the feedlback, and give us the quality that eluded the Christmas-crazed PCers.

	19-12-2001 04:06									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i don't think he's allowed to alter the game in some of the ways you're wanting

	19-12-2001 09:16									#23
	Combat system issues Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wig: I assume it is the combat issues that everyone thinks cannot be addressed by Bradman unilaterally.

If, as one person suggested (I think it was Smash), there is no point building mechanized infantry when elite musketmen or swordsmen perform just as well, then perhaps there is no point buying this game.

Increasing superiority of units with technological advances is a core element of this (and other) strategy games.

Perhaps this is overblown. Maybe the people complaining just didn't read the manual, or aren't very bright. I hope that's all it is. Mech infantry with similar experience just has to be better than swordsmen, or something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

	19-12-2001 20:12									#24
	Remove this text

quote: If, as one person suggested (I think it was Smash), there is no point building mechanized infantry when elite musketmen or swordsmen perform just as well, then perhaps there is no point buying this game.

That's not quite the case. Correct me if I'm wrong, smash, but I'd guess this sort of thing is a fluke, like it was in civ1. People didn't like the flawed combat system there either, but it was still a very fun game.

Newer units aren't useless...apparantly weird things can happen to them, though.

	21-12-2001 01:32									#25
	Re: Getting it right over on time Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Dr. K. I hope this "port", will be more a fix 'n port, incorporating the feedback from the PC gamers to the initial release and 1st firaxis patch.

The Mac version will ship with the 1.16f changes incorporated. It's my impression that Firaxis is still working on the game, so our time is best spent right now on the editor while Firaxis works on the core gameplay balancing. Having said that, we'll probably attempt to fix any issues that are bona fide gameplay bugs that Mac users can reproduce. It is my impression so far that the 1.16f code addresses most of the issues you mentioned - certainly the corruption one.

Brad