10-05-2001 17:35									#1
	Finishing new WW2-Europe scenario: last-minute suggestions? Got spare money?

Hi,

I've been working on a WW European theatre scenario for a long time now, and it's starting to look really good (I've used unit graphis of PG2 and many ideas of other great scenarios). But what I was really wondering about : do people actually WANT another WW2 scenario?
If so, I would gladly receive some suggestions to make my scenario worth finishing. Example: I was thinking of adding an "Atlantic Wall" event, where the (human) German player would see his coastline guarded by forts and barbwire, if he finishes his research on "The Atlantic Wall".
Anyone any suggestions/comments?

[This message has been edited by Martinus Magnificus (edited May 10, 2001).]

	10-05-2001 22:30									#2
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There is nothing wrong with another WWII scenario! Shame on you for suggesting that An Atlantic wall might make game play interesting, maybe if you replaced the Great Wall wonder with Atlantic Wall... even though that would affect the entire German country and not just the coast. Keep in mind, however, many historians view the Atlantic Wall as a failure (holding up the Normandy invasion for about 40 minutes at Gold, Juno and Sword, 20 minutes at Utah, 30 minutes at Omaha, all the while taking 4 years to build and not even have completed). But the idea is interesting. So again, never ever suggest that there are too many scenarios about WW2 and see if you can make the Atlantic Wall work... could be interesting to play with (or against...).

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Itaque ille mei duo centesimus thaleri est - And so that is my two cents (Or so I think... B in Latin)

	10-05-2001 23:46									#4
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Hey...Want me to send you the flags for the countries in your scenario? (Gregorian) Just give me a list of the countries and your email addy, and I'll have them to you in no time. Or, if you want, you can get them at http://russianciv2.homestead.com/flags.html
They're there. Thanks.
My email is vsyegdazarossiyu@gateway.net if you want it

	11-05-2001 05:00									#5
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I'm probably wrong, but I don't think that anyone has ever done a good scenario covering the western Allies liberation of Europe. As most WW2 scenarios are only really playable as the Germans, I think that one playable as the Allies would be very popular.

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith

	11-05-2001 23:07									#8
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Looking back at Sodaq's post, I think an event would be better to make or, depending on the time this scenario has started, maybe have the wall units already in place. That might be a bit more realistic than a wonder. Maybe, if you're committed to having the wall built, have the units move one space, have cities build the units, then have them be moved into place, thereby representing the transport of materials from Germany to the coast. Unfortunately the AI might not pick up on this and the allies will wind up fighting sea turrets in Prague... but it's a suggestion.

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Itaque ille mei duo centesimus thaleri est - And so that is my two cents (Or so I think... B in Latin)

	13-05-2001 19:44									#10
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Thanks for your suggestions so far!

I intended to design my scenario from a german perspective - though an allied version may follow in the next version. I named it 'Iron cross', after a german military decoration. It starts in september 1939 and ends somewhere around august 1945. I really changed every apect of the original game, so you just might find it interesting.

Here's an idea of what it looks like so far:
- Large, accurate map of Western Europe, including western Russia and Northern Africa, with the US and Canada represented by one city at the left and a new terrain type: Oil Fields;
- 7 nations: Germans, Allies (UK, US and Canada), Soviets, French, Italians, Minor Powers and Neutrals (Spain, Sweden, Turkey and Switzerland);
- Over 60 historically correct units, with GREAT graphics, thanks to SSI's Panzer General 2;
- 'Smart' AI, by using the 'move to' command properly;
- Many wonders representing things like the Lend-lease assistance, Soviet patriotism, British naval superiority etc.;

Here's some things I'm not sure about yet:
- should Italy be represented by a seperate civ? I think it should, to give the German player a challenge (in reality, the german-italian alliance was not much of an advantage to Germany, to say the least).
- should there be research, or should the techs be given to the civs by events (e.g. germans would receive 'Tiger Tank' technology on 1-1-1943)
- what about a 'fuel shortage' event in the spring of 1944 where the Germans would see their motorized units suffer serious movement restrictions, as long as the Kaukasus Oil fields are not in their posession?

Keep your replies coming!

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Make war, then love

	13-05-2001 22:22									#11
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For Italy, it should be it's own country allied with germany. But then you have to figure out how the North African campaign would work. But fo rthe invasion of Italy, you could have German units in Italy and as soon as armistice breaks have Italy at war with Germany and scatter German units via events across Italy and they would have to take control. Also you could give an events message saying the Italian fleet is planning to surrender and go to Malta and on the next turn if the German player is smart he will have moved bombers to intercept and you will have to destroy the ships before they can fight against the Germans. Just how would you show the following alliance with the Allies and how will some Italian cities be preserved?

For the oil shortage...before I start, are you going to have multiple events/rules and season changes. because if you do have season changes, in the moving to the summer or winter (take your pick) of 1944, an event could come up telling the player that as the season is changing, the oil shotages are reallly having an effect on the mobility of the German army and as you switch the rules for the season, the new and following rules will have decreased movement points for the German units. How's that?

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""I had hoped we were hurling a wildcat on the shore, but all we got was a stranded whale!"-Winston Curchill on the Battle of Anzio

"Quis custodes ipsos custodiet?" -Juvenal

"I can walk!!" -Dr. Strangelove

	15-05-2001 07:09									#12
	Got spare money?

You could always have a message pop up if a german city was captured near their oil feilds telling the player to run a batch file that has changed german units through the rules.txt file. If the player can recapture the city they can run the batch file again and regain the better units.

	16-05-2001 09:25									#13
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Italy should be its own civ definately. While Italy and Germany were allies, they broke down on several issues, one of those being the "Jewish Question", another being Mussolini's (sp?) handling of the Greek front (which Hitler had to come in and save Italy from defeat). By 1944 when it looked like Italy was going to surrender, Germany just came in and took over (still failed, though). You could maybe represent this by making Italy and Germany allies, but make most of the units in Italy German, with Italian units defending the cities. As for the African campaign, again combine German and Italian troops, and again make most of the troops German as they were historially (FYI: Italy is the only European country to loose to an African nation). I wouldn't try to represent the breakdown of German-Italian relations, as the path the player might take could differ greatly from history (instead of landing at Anzio, maybe the player will make a B-line for Rome itself, or bypass Italy completely), but definately make it clear that Italy is being defended by Germany and not Italians.

	30-05-2001 17:26									#14
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Anyone else?

	05-06-2001 04:46									#15
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Hey,
I think that a new WWII scenario would be welcome, if it's good, but it needs to be new in some aspects. Things like the Atlantic Wall would be good, at least in my view. Maybe a few more like that would really help your scenario.
Vulcan

	08-06-2001 06:40									#16
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I remember hearing not too long ago that the game recognizes "continents" based upon where the ocean divided the map right at its load-up, and before any user tweaking. In this way it was possible to simulate borders for countries to receive better trade bonuses. If the trans-continental trade bonus can be obtained through this method, you have to wonder if perhaps wonders that affect only cities on the same continent (such as J.S. Bach's) would follow the same rule.

If this turned out true, you could use Bach's to simulate when the Soviets first hit German territory, how the populace more or less went hysterical with fear, or you could use the Hoover damn as the Ploestil oil fields, or Rhur industrial area.

I'm not sure if this would work, but someone probably knows.

Thanks,

JP