21-11-2001 02:29									#1
	Some ideas for an espionage model. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A bit premature perhaps but it was fun thinking about it.

First of all I like the fact that they simplified the spy model in Civ3 . In Civ 2 producing large numbers of spies and micromanaging them all over the map was both overpowered and somewhat tedious. However the current system may be a bit too simple and lacking in enough strategy.

I thought it would be interesting to come up with some ideas to preserve a relatively simple system in terms of micromanagement but to make it more tactically and strategically interesting.

Here is my idea:

1) A spy adviser screen: Like the other adviser screens. It shows both your own country and the other countries with whom you have established an embassy. For each there is a list of espionage options. For each country you also know how strong their espionage is in terms of the number and quality of spies( to be explained)


2) Spy units: I would bring back the spy units but in a different way. First of all they would be more expensive , more like city improvements than the spies in the Civ2. So you can only have a small number at any given time and you have to think carefully how to allocate them. Secondly they aren't like normal units but can only be allocated via the spy adviser screen. So this cuts down a lot of the tedium of moving spies to and fro. Like earlier games the spies will have a number of moral upgrades and also perhaps a diplomat/spy distinction like Civ 2.


3) Multiple defensive operations: this is a new concept( I think) where you can choose what branch to allocate your spy on the defensive. So if you are the technological leader you might allocate your spies to defending from tech stealing.. If you are lagging in culture you might allocate your spies to preventing revolts.

4) Allocating spies: This is fairly straighfoward . Just go to the spy adviser screen and click on the offensive operation for a particular country or whichever defensive operation you want. You can allocate multiple spies to an operation if you want. You can reallocate spies but that will cost you something in terms of unfinished missions.

5) Completing a mission: Each offensive mission has a certain number of spy points. Each spy unit produces a certain no. of spy points per turn depending on morale. You complete the mission only after the number of turns you need to accumulate the spy points for that mission. If you have more spies, their points are added up and you finish the mission more quickly.

6) Spy wars: These happen when the guy you are attacking has a defensive spy for that operation. So suppose you assign a spy to steal Rome's tech but Rome has a spy defending technology, then there is a spy war. This also happens if you have already accumulated points and if Rome decides to allocate a spy from somewhere else to fight you. The spy war is decided according the number and moral of the two sides ( and perhaps some other modifiers). If you win you destroy his spy and simply continue accumulating points. If you lose either your spy is destroyed and exposed or you simply lose all your accumualated points and have to start over.

7) Options to see other players' spy allocations: There are various possibilities. Perhaps you can have an offensive mission to see all of one opponent's spies for a certain number of turns. Perhaps if you build a certain wonder you can see how other countries are spying on you permanently etc.

8) Joint spy missions: You can ask other countries to join you in some spy mission. So you allocate a spy to stealing Roman tech and ask Greece to join you which increases the speed of the mission and makes you stronger in spy wars. Of course both of you get the tech when the mission is complete. There are other diplomatic possibilities as well.

That's more or less it. There are plenty of other little ideas based on this model which I won't elaborate.

What do you think?

	21-11-2001 02:33									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That sounds reallyy good. Gives a lot more of a realistic use of spies than current in the game.

	21-11-2001 04:35									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Thank you, Spam Shark.

Any comments, anyone else?

I though it might be interesting to give an example of the tactical possibilities:

Suppose Rome is attacking you with two spies, one stealing tech and the other destroying a key improvement. Both have 6 turns to finish.

You have one free spy to defend; so do you defend the tech or the improvement. Hmm . Tough choice.

However... You have a butt-kicking vet spy in China on a tech-stealing mission . If you bring him back you could defend both. Unfortunately he has 8 turns left to finish the mission which will be too late. If you yank him out early, he will lose accumulated points. So do you go on the defensive at the expense of offence? Another tough one.

Hmm... how about asking Britain to join in on the spy mission in China. If you combine spies you can be done in 4 turns and your vet spy can be home in time to defend against Rome.