21-11-2001 17:05									#1
	Stiels Breeding Machine Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For those who are interested, do following:

CONDITIONS TO DO IT:
1. It is probably only useable on the larger maps
2. You have to be confident that you have enough time and space to execute it. (My strategy cost a lot of time before it’s useful).
3. You’ll have to be sure that no one can claim the territory you’re aiming for, because if this happens my strategy won’t be of any use….

I’ve tested the following when I was playing as the Americans on the huge world map. The AI placed me in India and my neighbors were in North/East Asia (Persians) and Eurasia. The South/East of Asia was inhabited and I determent that that was the direction where I would built my cities. Especially because the were lots of luxuries for me….

Because of the Himalayas I took the gamble that the Persians would need time to settle in the South/East of Asia. I knew I had to built lots of cities to cover all the luxuries territory. And I knew I had the time to do it.

THE INGREDIENTS:
1. Play as a civ who can build the Pyramids immediately (expansionist??)
2. Build your capital right away
3. I’ve built 2 extra scouts to search for suitable land for my cities (I found 10 goody huts with 7 techs!)
4. Built a settler for your second city

AND NOW IT COMES:
1. I was mining the land near to the capital, that way I was able to gain lots of shields to speed up the building. (2 mines near my capital, 2 near my second city)
2. BUILD THE PYRAMIDS AFTER YOU HAVE PRODUCED YOUR FIRST SETTLER IN THE CAPITAL!
3. The second city must built up itself until you can built your second settler, okay do it! Oh yeah, mine two squares.
4. Mine two squares at your third city
5. Now wait
6. wait
7. a lit bit longer…….
8. Almost there…………..
9. YES, We have the pyramids!!!! (note that your rival civs already have got >6 cities by now)

STIELS BREEDING MACHINE:
1. Now that you have the Pyramids you’ll have the advantage of the Pyramids off course, combined with the 2 mine squares this will lead to the following:
- A city of pop. 5 will produce another pop in 4 turns
- A city of pop. 5 will produce a settler in (guess what??) 4 turns!

And I had this in all three the cities! Now watch this the system:

2. City ( 5 pop): When the settler is ready a new pop will come to the city so you will only lose one pop!
3. A 4 pop city will also produce a new pop and a settler in 4 turns! So do it!!
5. A 3 pop city will still have good production and breeding (new pop in 4 turns) but you must wait with building settlers until you will have 5 pop again (takes 8 turns) so invest the shields in other things like a temple or defensive units…..
6. When it is pop. 5 again repeat the process again.
7. I had THREE cities who were following this method and this way I make settlers like rabbits breed! Without uncontrolled loss of population (and more important) shields, in other words: you’ll have always the same number of shields!
8. Take the fourth city, and mine 2 squares, let it grow to 4 pop and start producing workers. New worker and new pop ready in 4 turns, This means one city is producing a worker every 4 turns and it stays a 4 pop city!

Oh yeah, I’m playing a peaceful early/mid game with this because I don’t have time to build up a decent offensive military. However waiting for a pop 3 city to a 5 will give you some time to produce a decent defensive military. But remember:

YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS WITH THE CONDITIONS DISCRIBED ABOVE!

DISADVANTAGES:
1. a long time you’ll be a weaker civ, so don’t start a war


Any comments??



STIEL

	21-11-2001 17:48									#2
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Hm I'm not convinced.

The AI generally hurries to box you in, rendering your 3 cities your only territory. Even if not, there are issues with your approach:

1) What about culture? Your 2nd and 3rd city will remain weak with only 1 square of influence... not good for a size 5 city.

2) Why wait? I understand you think it's great to be able to turn out settlers fast at the point (pyramids) you describe, but building them earlier and taking the pop loss isn't inherently worse. Your new cities in turn can begin building, and the bonus adds up.

	21-11-2001 17:49									#3
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Hmm, following your logic....

I think that starting the game with the construction of a wonder is very wasteful. There are lots of neat things you have to do in the beginning, and it's all about speed. I think it is the combination of cities built and speed that creates a great civ.

So, I believe that building granaries in the first couple of cities is much more efficient. Hell if you really want the advantage, just kill some poor shmuck pop and get them. This way, you'll go really fast.

Once your capital (I build all my wonders in here.. no reason, I just think that the city that represents your whole empire should be awesome, but this is not required for the strategy at all) has done what it has to do, and you already have a couple of cities ussually that are supplying settlers while you build the pyramids, you could then hit for the pyramids and follow suite for the other half of the expansion.

This seems to be much more beneficial, and you're not losing precious beginning time on an extreme project.

	21-11-2001 18:06									#4
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quote: Originally posted by DK36 Hmm, following your logic.... I think that starting the game with the construction of a wonder is very wasteful. There are lots of neat things you have to do in the beginning, and it's all about speed. I think it is the combination of cities built and speed that creates a great civ. So, I believe that building granaries in the first couple of cities is much more efficient. Hell if you really want the advantage, just kill some poor shmuck pop and get them. This way, you'll go really fast. Once your capital (I build all my wonders in here.. no reason, I just think that the city that represents your whole empire should be awesome, but this is not required for the strategy at all) has done what it has to do, and you already have a couple of cities ussually that are supplying settlers while you build the pyramids, you could then hit for the pyramids and follow suite for the other half of the expansion. This seems to be much more beneficial, and you're not losing precious beginning time on an extreme project.

Yeah I fully agree. The Pyramids have little benefit in a 3-city 3000BC situation, as compared to a few quick granaries.

	21-11-2001 18:10									#5
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Well, I think you're both right.

Grim: I've said that it is really important to use this strategy only if you won't be closed in by the AI

After your city hits 3 pop you'll have time to built a temple. I have temples in all my cities. This method gives you a pause to built the other things that are needed. Plus the capital produces culture immidiately......

DK36: Off course you could built granaries instead, that will be much cheaper and time winning

BUT I only wanted to make clear that the combination 5 pop city/granary/2 mines is a deadly one because you can built A LOT of settlers/workers in a short time without loss of production.

And that is the most imporant (Pyramids don't bother, that's just a good granary suplier)


STIEL

	21-11-2001 18:28									#6
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quote: Originally posted by stiel Well, I think you're both right. Grim: I've said that it is really important to use this strategy only if you won't be closed in by the AI BUT I only wanted to make clear that the combination 5 pop city/granary/2 mines is a deadly one because you can built A LOT of settlers/workers in a short time without loss of production. And that is the most imporant (Pyramids don't bother, that's just a good granary suplier)

Re 1: LOL ok, but I hope you realize that this almost never happens! In all games I've played, the enemy comes in peddling boats with settlers and warriors to hassle me at my continent with cities... and I'm not even talking about the guys who actually start on the same land mass! All this happens really early too.

Re 2: The combination (city size/granary for building settlers) you showed is indeed very nice.