22-11-2001 06:53									#1
	legitimate strategy or cheating? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hello there all,

I am just wondering if anyone has thought about this.

If you save a game you are in, where you haven't explored the whole map, and choose to retire instead of quit, you get to see the replay of where every civilization has founded there cities and when.

Now, I know that that is just general information, but if you wanted to know where each civ is and how many cities they have, all you have to do is save, retire, view the replay and load the game again.

Do you think that they should have included some sort of programming where, if you retire (instead of quit), that you can't load that game anymore?

Does anyone consider this a legitimate strategy?

	22-11-2001 07:04									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It's cheating, but nothing too huge unless you make a point of remembering where everything is.

A little like reloading because you did a turn accidentally or forgot to do something.

	22-11-2001 07:30									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Actually, Of course it isn't a legitimate strategy, that was dopey of me to ask.

I guess what I was wondering was how hi this rated on the cheat list.

	22-11-2001 07:45									#4
	Remove this text

Well, it depends on when you use it. 4000 AD, it's pretty big. You get mapmaking, you could make short work of the world by knowing where all of the cities are. Later, you will probably have a complete world map from trading, etc, so it isn't a big deal. IMHO, a big part of the fun is exploring the world, so you would be missing out on that. Mostly cheating yourself, I suppose.

	22-11-2001 08:07									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

sorry, but it's cheating, full stop, not sort of or maybe but cheating!!

	22-11-2001 08:07									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think in a way it is cheating as well, cause for me half the fun is trying to find the civilizations. I don't want to know right where they placed every city and where they are at until I happen to stumble on them. But, unless you were specifically focusing on a couple of civs. it would probably be hard to remember where everything was at. Just my $.02 though.:

	22-11-2001 09:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

yeah its cheating

in civ2 you had to enable cheat mode to do the same thing

not as bad as some things of course. but a definate advantage to the human (I still believe the ai does not know where everything is- they can sense how strong your military is though)

	22-11-2001 11:31									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Is it cheating?

If you gain an advantage by methods that aren't part of the "regular" game then it is cheating as is exploiting "bugs"...

	22-11-2001 12:42									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Exploiting bugs is cheating to me. Some games the bugs are very large holes that provide a huge advantage. Some are so small as to not really have an impact.

	22-11-2001 14:31									#10
	Got spare money?

its cheating....mapmaking comes early and the land fills quick so maps aren't hard to come by

	22-11-2001 16:55									#11
	Remove this text

Depending on your point of view, it could also be called JUSTICE.

The AI never has any problems rushing their settlers in your direction, *long* before first contact. Or does it, huh huh?

[ducks to dodge undefined objects sailing through the air]

	22-11-2001 21:33									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Cheating, definitely!

	23-11-2001 04:19									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I reluctantly agree, but only because I do it

I'd like to offer up my "rationalization" for why I do it, fully
admitting that I'm rationalizing cheating.

Sometimes games don't always go the way you want.
You may go an hour in to find out you are totally surrounded
by expansionist or aggressive civs and never really get a
good start and are limited in where you can go.

I know, a true die hard Civ'er would deal with it and turn
that negative into a postive and try to find a way out of
it. But by using this technique you can immediately find
out "wow, got the Aztecs and Russians each right on
top of me" and can then decide if you want to deal with
it or not.

As I said, rationalization... But for what it's worth, I only
do it right at the beginning, for the rationale I listed, as
well as wanting to make sure things look somewhat
fair for everyone. Another thing I hated in Civ2 was
starting a game and one AI wipes out another at 2750BC.
I find it useful to just take a quick glance and see if everyone
is somewhat evenly spread out. I don't memorize the terrain
or placement or make a rush to find those people, and I don't
quit mid game to see how I'm doing (It's easy enough to see
how you rank vs everyone else after a little while in because
you can see how many cities everyone has, what everyones
score is, etc).

Jim

	23-11-2001 06:18									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Does it really matter whether it is cheating or not?? You can only use this during a single-player game, and if it is cheating, its only cheating yourself!! There isnt any possibility of doing this during a MP game.

For me, I just dont think its worth it to use this, takes almost all the fun out of the early ancient period. And the challenge.

	23-11-2001 06:48									#15
	Put an end to popups!

yes its sorta cheating but I do it as I cant stand wasting huge amounts of my time on an unwinnable map.
Not a bug as it can only be done on the single player map therefore you are only ruining it for yourself

	23-11-2001 09:05									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

No such thing really as "cheating" in such a game. If you had a human opponent, sure it would be. Basically you are just playing for fun, not competition, so whatever you do to make it more enjoyable is alright.

	23-11-2001 10:52									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Egovalor, I agree it is fine to do want you want in your game, but it is still cheating. Same as solitare, you may do what you want to enjoy the game, but if you peek at cards it is cheating.

	23-11-2001 10:57									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i should rephrase what i said....personally i think it would be cheating if I did it...... but its your game and you should play however you like......

you make the decision if its cheating

	23-11-2001 10:59									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

I totally agree with Ego and Skank, there isn't such a thing as cheating in single player. It is called having fun. Though sometimes by cheating we can improve our own game by looking at AI tactics, ie by reloading we can test different units effectiveness in combat. MP is different.

As I said in another thread it is up to your personal self-satisfaction.

	23-11-2001 13:50									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

So what you are saying is if I look at the cards in solitare and no one is there to see it, that is not cheating? That is not logical, nor true.

	23-11-2001 14:33									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

or like cheating on your significant other and then trying to excuse it by saying you were trying out a different unit

seriously though..... its a matter of whatever enjoyment you get out of the game....some cheats you would think are universal but who am i to say whats a real "cheat" and whats just exploitation of a buggy game.

just because they don't call it cheat mode , it doesn't mean it not cheating to peek at the map.....

But if this gives you more enjoyment...... then knock yourself out......