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Calanor
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Uppsala, Sweden
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
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Well, I was considering adding one or so "pseudo-unique" unit for each side. Basically, it would be a standard unit using the standard name yet with slightly tweaked stats (and no chance of starting Golden Age). For instance, English (or Welsh, rather) Longbowmen and French Knights. Unfortunately, such units show up in the Civilopedia using the same name as the original unit (thus, you'd get the same unit entry twice), so I've abandoned the idea for now.
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Calanor
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Uppsala, Sweden
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
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Gurkhas are elite warriors from uh Nepal, methinks. Their peculiar-looking (and big!) knives is more or less their trademark.
Coracle is a very simple (and ancient) celtic boat.
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Arkatreides
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Bring back Dragoons!!! Or Cavalry (if the current cavalry is supposed to be dragoons)
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gamecommander
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North Carolina
Nov 2001
time: 00:16
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I would suggest the ballista/scorpion to represent early anti-infantry seige weaponry. Comes with mathematics like captapult, but functions like a normal unit, not bombardment. Stats [4.1.1] Can only attack units with 1 movement point to reflect how ineffective it was against faster units.
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Badtz Maru
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I already went with the War Elephants idea when I started messing around with the editor. I took the existing War Elephant Indian special unit, made it stronger and slower than a knight and made it require Ivory. I made Ivory more common, and made it appear in grasslands, forests, plains, and jungles.
Since finding out you can make a unit require any resource, I'm considering making an alternative mounted unit that uses game instead of horses, maybe a reindeer-drawn chariot or moose cavalry, that way I could make a realistic map of the Americas without horses and still have mounted units. Only problem is that it would end up being used by all civilizations and make horses less useful - if I could fix start locations to particular civs I could make it so that only Iroquois and Aztecs could use these units, but since you can't fix start locations it would defeat the purpose.
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Zurai001
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An interesting idea I've succesfully tested is to remove the 'immobile' flag from 'copters in the editor, allowing them to move around in the field. This gives them the ability to fulfill their real-life functions of extraction and insertion of strike teams and wounded. It also allows attack helicopters to have a role that isn't pointless compared to jets, by being able to base out in the field and attack deeper into enemy territory.
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Dr Spin
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Fanatics.
Without Fundy, a fanatic is simply someone (or group of someones) blindly adherent to some ideal (constitutional, religious, whatever).
Buildable after some small wonder (say... "The Doctrine") they have a fairly weak attack/defense, but cost no support.
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ElitePersian
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Vancouver, BC
Nov 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ajbera
Terrorist unit, 1/1/2 (8 bombard), attacks only once before expiring, and uses precision bombing to attack improvements, population or units. Either linked to one or two civs (Persians being one), |
Why would Persians have terrorists? that is utterly stupid and inaccurate to history. maybe u shoud get your facts straight before making stupid assumptions like that.
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ajbera
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of the Cookieville Minimum Security Orphanarium
Apr 1999
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ElitePersian
Why would Persians have terrorists? that is utterly stupid and inaccurate to history. maybe u shoud get your facts straight before making stupid assumptions like that. |
It's not inaccurate at all, in modern terms. The region that used to be Persia is now Iran, Iraq, etc. Those nations currently are supportive of terrorists, some train them, so the usage of them by the Persians is not far-out fantasy. The terrorists wouldn't be buildable until the modern or industrial eras, so they wouldn't be used in ancient times.
Evidently you feel this is a denigration of Persia - it is not, anymore than using the fascism patch (which I do) with the Nazi swastika is a denigration of Germany. They just happen to (loosely) fit certain historical occurences - at one point, the Germans were a fascist war machine, and at one point (nowish) the people and nations that were once Persia now sometimes utilize terrorists in their aims. I wish I could simulate internal terrorism, of the IRA/Tim McVeigh stripe, but I can't. I can only model international terrorists, of which the descendants of the Persians currently make the most notable use.
If it makes you feel any better, allow all civs to use terrorists - it doesn't matter to me. But I want my damn terrorists.
What I would love is for one or two civs, throughout the course of the game, to be 'evil.' It doesn't have to be the Germans that become a fascist war machine, but someone should - it's nice to have a good, 'evil' foe to fight every now and then. Similarly, it doesn't have to be the Persians that use terrorists for their aims, but it would be nice if one or two rogue civs did so.
Again, if your panties are in a twist because you think I think badly of Persians (or any middle-Easterners, for that matter) - it ain't true. But of the given civs, if one had be chosen to best accept a terrorist unit, I think most folks would agree that the Persians are the best choice.
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From what i can see with the editor, and hopefully eventually the ability to add to unit graphics, here is the units i would like in Civ3:
Helicopter (unless Civ3 does have it, but haven't seen it)
Air Transport
Commando/Special Forces
Power Armor Infantry
Battle Suit/Mech/Gundam/Gear
Siege Tank (would be nice to have the option to normal attack at normal distance, but can artillery attack in a distance...like the ships. is that possible?)
Former (replaces workers)
Colony Pod (replaces settlers)
Hovertank
Foil (yes, i taking some units from SMAC...but can't see why we don't have a Future Age...or even the Renaissance)
Probe Team (do we have spies in Civ3 or can only espionage via capital? i haven't reach Industrial or Modern age yet in any Civ3 games i played... no time or game to boring or comp about to cripple me)
Terrorist (not sure about this, but also make their nationality invisible like the Privateers...is it possible to make them available to barbarians and AI using them properly?)
Mercenary (hired combat troops with no nationality...possibly available to Barbarians....possible to set what time period the Barbarians can use them?)
Partisan (would be nice to have after loosing/conquering a city. amount of partisans would be base on the difference of your high culture to the conquerors, or vice versa. If less then the conqueror, then not much partisan... and partisan shows up near captured foreign cities during civil disorders)
Rangers
Supply Crawler (mobile colony in a way, that doesn't need roads  can also gather shields or food or money(depend of tile).
Air Balloon (like the one in Warcraft 2)
Air Carriers
Super Soldier (for the fun of it )
One way they could of done the trading is like ala Colonization...same with the units. Supply certain amount of resources/weapons/equipment.... each unit of resource is enough to make/equip a unit. And have be able to acquire some prisoners and make them slaves then after war or whatever, can negociate them back or not. also should be able to trade units....atleast, like trade weapons/armor (muskets, rifles, swords, shields, combatsuit) or vehicules (tanks, jeeps, aircrafts, catapult, artillery,). So mainly produce Soldiers, and then equip them muskets or bows or whatever, aswell as armor like shields, leather, iron, steel, etc... or have the Soldiers to pilot aircrafts, crew a naval ship, etc.... that would of been a way to do something close to smac, but colonization style. Same with the resource system, which sould also be able to pile up surpluses. And when finish making soldiers, they automaticly crew or equip themselves the best weapons and armor at the city warehouses as available, or whatever other cities connected by road. Then keep the Caravans, which are automaticly created after making a trade deal or whatever........
Plasma Cannon (or whatever for future age type artillery)
-LMP
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ElitePersian
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Vancouver, BC
Nov 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ajbera
It's not inaccurate at all, in modern terms. The region that used to be Persia is now Iran, Iraq, etc. Those nations currently are supportive of terrorists, some train them, so the usage of them by the Persians is not far-out fantasy. The terrorists wouldn't be buildable until the modern or industrial eras, so they wouldn't be used in ancient times.
Evidently you feel this is a denigration of Persia - it is not, anymore than using the fascism patch (which I do) with the Nazi swastika is a denigration of Germany. They just happen to (loosely) fit certain historical occurences - at one point, the Germans were a fascist war machine, and at one point (nowish) the people and nations that were once Persia now sometimes utilize terrorists in their aims. I wish I could simulate internal terrorism, of the IRA/Tim McVeigh stripe, but I can't. I can only model international terrorists, of which the descendants of the Persians currently make the most notable use.
If it makes you feel any better, allow all civs to use terrorists - it doesn't matter to me. But I want my damn terrorists.
What I would love is for one or two civs, throughout the course of the game, to be 'evil.' It doesn't have to be the Germans that become a fascist war machine, but someone should - it's nice to have a good, 'evil' foe to fight every now and then. Similarly, it doesn't have to be the Persians that use terrorists for their aims, but it would be nice if one or two rogue civs did so.
Again, if your panties are in a twist because you think I think badly of Persians (or any middle-Easterners, for that matter) - it ain't true. But of the given civs, if one had be chosen to best accept a terrorist unit, I think most folks would agree that the Persians are the best choice. |
First off, most people just consider ARAB countries as terrorists, and Iran is not an Arab country. The persian empire got condensed to modern day Iran, so persian is Iran, not Iraq, even though the persian empire USED to cover Iraqi territory (and more) in ancient ages. And just because Iran is a middle eastern country, doesn't make them terrorists, no records of iranian terrorists striking exist from my knowledge (or at least major ones, they DID have conflicts with the USA however.), that's why I say it is innacurate. If you wanna use the terrorist unit for a current middle-eastern race just because they are middle-eastern, then fine, but in no way is Iran a terrorist country, neither is any other country. - its the certain PEOPLE, not country.
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Kristjan
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Estonia
Jan 2001
time: 05:16
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I will add two units asap.
Partisans -- with HIDDEN nationality to correspond to proxy militias (Taleban, UCK), alpine, draftable
Ecology team (bad name, I know) -- worker that does not reduce pop. points and is able to remove pollution only. That's for automation -- automated workers tend to not put removing pollution on top of their priority list.
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Optimizer
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Stockholm
Feb 2001
time: 06:16
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I would like two classes of industrial ships.
Coal-powered, until 1930s:
Dreadnought, Torpedo boat, U-boat, Steam Transport
Oil-powered, with radar & sonar, 1930s and on:
Battleship, Destroyer, Submarine, Carrier, Motor Transport
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KaiserIsak
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of Isakistan Empire
Oct 2000
time: 05:16
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ajbera--> The biggest terrorists are trained by the CIA. This INCLUDES Osama Bin Laden.
And Pinochet and many others
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ajbera
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of the Cookieville Minimum Security Orphanarium
Apr 1999
time: 05:16
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I understand that. But while the US may train terrorists (rather, guerilla fighters who become terrorists), the US doesn't use them. I can't recall the last time an American soldier drove a truck filled with explosives into an enemy camp and detonated them. Not to say there aren't US terrorists, as we certainly have internal ones (Tim McVeigh), and for all we know, some CIA operatives are conducting suicide missions where they perform terrorist-like activities.
But that doesn't change my original point. I want, at some point in the game, a rogue nation (or several) that utilize terrorism for warfare, sabotage, etc. Of the 16 civs given us by Firaxis, the one that would best suit a terrorist unit would be the Persians, if only because the lands they occupied back when they were Persia is now covered by Iran, Iraq (pardon if my geography is imprecise, ElitePersian can correct my mistakes), which does support (and possibly make use of) terrorists. Actually, Iran seems to have calmed down a bit, but I have little trust of Saddam Hussein. Hussein's actions do not reflect on the historical Persians, but in the absence of an Iraqi civ that can utilize terrorists, the dubious privelege falls back on the Persians. Perhaps the Egyptians can use them too.
Again, this is not to deprecate the Persians or Egyptians. If I were to make a Stormtrooper unit, the logical choice for a civ to attach it to is Germany. Not that Germany is a fascist country, or a guaranteed warmonger, but they did produce stormtroopers, so the linkage is not far-fetched. This returns to the underlying fault of civ-specific units in general - Americans were not destined to produce F-15s, any more than Germany was destined to build Panzers. But they did, and since Civ3 uses civ-specific units, we accept it, or disable the feature, or don't play Civ3. What would be ideal is if special units were a product of gameplay, territory (the English wouldn't have Man-o-Wars if they were a land-locked nation), but, alas, it ain't so. Therefore, we make the most of what we've got.
My true preference would be to make units linked to something other than civilization, like civ attribute, or government. Then stormtroopers would only be built by fascist governments, and terrorists would only be built by either fundamentalists (which has a 'religious' attribute prereq), or by 'religious' or 'militaristic' civs with insufficient forces to produce a strong army (giving them a reason to resort to terrorism), but the current tools disallow this (hopefully in the updated editor).
As a compromise, how about the terrorist can be built by any civ, but it carries no national markings (a la privateer.) It's not the best solution, but that way I'm not picking on the Persians.
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ThaddeusAlexander
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Toronto, Canada (Canada's TRUE capitol :))
Dec 2000
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ajbera
As a compromise, how about the terrorist can be built by any civ, but it carries no national markings (a la privateer.) It's not the best solution, but that way I'm not picking on the Persians. |
I think this is a really cool idea, but you have to set factors before you can build them. I mean, terrorists must have a reason, right? I say that your civ needs to be low in the 'power' chart - the bottom 1/4 say ... and i say for simplicity, eliminate democratic terrorists - i understand that many of today's democratic nations have terrorists in them, but you don't see them going off to other countries (not often at least).
Also, you should add a chance of being cought - the change increasing if you have certain improvements in the city that was attacked or your empire as a whole (the pentagon or police stations come to mind).
Cheers!
~Alex
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22-11-2001 12:32
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