23-11-2001 16:13									#1
	Interface and other complaints (Civ3 is flawless and perfect types need not read). Suffering from ads?

I'm going nuts moving my 30 unit army one by one.....
- No group movement is just stupid player griefing...

I'm going nuts when after moving 5 units from a 10 unit stack it suddenly decides it's more much better to active a worker 5 screens away than to activate unit #6 of my current stack.
- logic....

I'm going nuts when i try to get a clear overview of my units in a given tile.
- Inexcusable rushing...

I'm going nuts when I want to semi-end the turn for a given unit but I can't, there's no way to skip a units turn without completely ending it.
- Skip turn should pull the unit from the "next available unit" rutine BUT you should still be able to manually click and move it.

I'm going nuts when the governor starts producing a Galleon after finishing a battleship.
The 0.005 secs on screen msg about finished unit building jobs is a joke, give me a pop-up menu and kill the damn governor for christ sake.


The late game is such a management grief that I quite frankly don't bothert playing much into the industrial age when I get 20 cities, 70 workers and 70 military units ot keep track off.

If you enjoy this kind of grief then more power to you but respect that I don't.


Another thing that is immensly annoying in my world is that it doesn't update everything at the start of your turn, for example
why does it have to cycle through 5 cities that just produced something before it announces the tech advance that lets me build the new improvement I want to start building in those 5 cities ?

You might say that it's minor anoynance but for me it's another 30 or whatever redundant clicks added to the already massive amount of redundant clicking & scrolling.



The more I play the more pissed I get at the downright stinking interface and it gets so bad that as mentioned before when I'm reaching the industrial age I'm mainly figthing the interface not the other civs.


/dev

	23-11-2001 16:23									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In a perfect world you'd be absolutely right and I hope at least some of these micromanagement issues get cleaned up in future versions of the game. I just wonder what you were expecting considering it has evolved from the micromanagement-fest that was Civ II.....

	23-11-2001 16:27									#3
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I don't remember Civ2 being this much of an interface/management hell and SMAC surely isn't.

This interface hasn't evolved, it's regressed.

/dev

	23-11-2001 16:31									#4
	Put an end to popups!

All of those flaws are present in Civ II except for the stupid governor (because tere wasn't one and you couldnt queue production) and you couldn't even set auto-workers to reduce some of the worker-management.

	23-11-2001 16:31									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: I'm going nuts when I want to semi-end the turn for a given unit but I can't, there's no way to skip a units turn without completely ending it.

Doesn't the 'Wait' command cover what you're looking for here?

If not, could you be a little clearer?

	23-11-2001 16:37									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Cian McGuire Doesn't the 'Wait' command cover what you're looking for here? If not, could you be a little clearer?

Yes I was thinking the same thing! The wait command is exactly what dev describes.

	23-11-2001 16:37									#7
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Cian if I use wait I will return to the unit automaticly (and proberly when I'm trying to move some otyher stack of units).

I want an end turn unless I change my mind and manually click the unit option.

Grumbold, I haven't played Civ2 for years but I know that the inteface didn't even come close to anoy me as much as Civ3, sentry command et all.

/dev

	23-11-2001 16:40									#8
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dev Cian if I use wait I will return to the unit automaticly (and proberly when I'm trying to move some otyher stack of units). I want an end turn unless I change my mind and manually click the unit option. /dev

Well, use the fortify command then. In that case if you change your mind you can activate him again (which was not possible in civ2, so this is an improvement!).

	23-11-2001 16:44									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

But if I fortify it I have to remember activating it next turn....

A simple change to "skip turn" would fix it.

/dev

	23-11-2001 16:56									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

"Clear Overview of Units in a given tile" ? The right-click menu is perfect for an overview, way better than the old style boxes.

I know what you mean about the "Governor" decisions, I spent ages waiting for another civ to build Sun Tsus War Academy because nearly every city chose it, then again we do have a production "queue", if only I could figure out how it works ...

I'd like to be able to play a game consisting purely of AI civs, then just watch it in high speed

	23-11-2001 16:56									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Cian if I use wait I will return to the unit automaticly (and proberly when I'm trying to move some otyher stack of units).

Wait pushes it into a line of units and waits until the last non-waited unit moves or otherwise finishes it's movement. Thereafter they procede in order of when you told them to wait (if I'm not mistaken- they may activate in order or closeness). There won't be any instances of a waited unit popping up in the middle of an active army movement- not that I've noticed anyways.

If what you're looking for automatically ends the unit's turn but allows him to be selectable next turn, doesn't the pass/space bar do that function?

	23-11-2001 17:01									#12
	Put an end to popups!

Unfortunately the wait option does not work like that. If you tell a unit to wait then it will requery the next time the "stack" cycles round to that unit. So if you manually select another unit that is higher in the queue, once you have given it orders, up pops the "waiting" unit. It does not get apssed over until after all the units have been queried at least once. Of course this is not noticable if you allow the computer to go through all the units in its internal order. Then you only see the "wait" units after all the normal ones have been processed.

Sentry mode would be an answer, if Civ 3 had it.

	23-11-2001 17:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Dev A simple change to "skip turn" would fix it.

you can have a unit do nothing this turn and be activated on the next turn by hiting space
or are you describing something else?

	23-11-2001 17:16									#14
	Re: Interface and other complaints (Civ3 is flawless and perfect types need not read). Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Dev The late game is such a management grief that I quite frankly don't bothert playing much into the industrial age when I get 20 cities, 70 workers and 70 military units ot keep track off.

and you're saying you didnt have the same situation in civ2?

quote: Another thing that is immensly annoying in my world is that it doesn't update everything at the start of your turn, for example why does it have to cycle through 5 cities that just produced something before it announces the tech advance that lets me build the new improvement I want to start building in those 5 cities ? You might say that it's minor anoynance but for me it's another 30 or whatever redundant clicks added to the already massive amount of redundant clicking & scrolling.

at least you can change the production of cities directly from the domestic advisor

	23-11-2001 17:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dev I don't remember Civ2 being this much of an interface/management hell and SMAC surely isn't. /dev

It's called "Amarcord effect'. Fellini covered that pretty well, IMHO.

	23-11-2001 17:28									#16
	Please correct me if I'm wrong... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by xane "Clear Overview of Units in a given tile" ? The right-click menu is perfect for an overview, way better than the old style boxes. I know what you mean about the "Governor" decisions, I spent ages waiting for another civ to build Sun Tsus War Academy because nearly every city chose it, then again we do have a production "queue", if only I could figure out how it works ... I'd like to be able to play a game consisting purely of AI civs, then just watch it in high speed

Don't you have the option to prevent Governors 'choosing' to build Wounders and/or Naval units? ( sorry I am at the office so don't have the game available....Also we use NT at work )

If you need to build multiple Battleships use the build queue and de-select Naval units from the govenors options...

edit: Shift key to add to the production queue, 'q' to remove...I think

	23-11-2001 17:56									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Cian McGuire If what you're looking for automatically ends the unit's turn but allows him to be selectable next turn, doesn't the pass/space bar do that function?

No, once I skip the turn I can no longer activate the unit in the _same_ turn if I change my mind. (because of a battle gone wrong etc.)

/dev

	23-11-2001 17:59									#18
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Dev No, once I skip the turn I can no longer activate the unit in the _same_ turn if I change my mind. (because of a battle gone wrong etc.)

perhaps you then need a feature in civ3 that reads your mind and either makes a unit wait or skip turn according to whether you will change your mind or not...

	23-11-2001 18:02									#19
	Re: Re: Interface and other complaints (Civ3 is flawless and perfect types need not read). Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MarkG and you're saying you didnt have the same situation in civ2?

Yes that's what I'm saying and giving it some thought it's probably because I only used a fraction of units in Civ2 I use in Civ3. 3 tanks and 10 bombers just doesn't cut it anymore~

quote: at least you can change the production of cities directly from the domestic advisor

Doesn't change the fact that it's poor design.

/dev

	23-11-2001 18:05									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG perhaps you then need a feature in civ3 that reads your mind and either makes a unit wait or skip turn according to whether you will change your mind or not...

Read my lips:

I want a feature that pulls the unit from the queue but lets me manually activate it without getting "Unit has already moved this turn" msg.

Is it that hard to understand ?

/dev

	23-11-2001 18:05									#21
	Re: Re: Re: Interface and other complaints (Civ3 is flawless and perfect types need not read). Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Dev 3 tanks and 10 bombers just doesn't cut it anymore

that's actually good, isnt it?

	23-11-2001 18:08									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dev I want a feature that pulls the unit from the queue but lets me manually activate it without getting "Unit has already moved this turn" msg.

so having to use "wait" to not use a unit and "skip turn" to tell that unit to do nothing is that big a problem?

	23-11-2001 18:11									#23
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso It's called "Amarcord effect'. Fellini covered that pretty well, IMHO.

Thanks, I specificly mentioned you in the topic and yet you still had to post your (mandatory) junk.

and no I don't know who fellini is/was and I could care less, if I ever want to know I'll go look it up on a Fellini msg board if you know what I mean.

/dev

	23-11-2001 18:12									#24
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MarkG so having to use "wait" to not use a unit and "skip turn" to tell that unit to do nothing is that big a problem?

Yes it is.

/dev

	23-11-2001 18:14									#25
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Interface and other complaints (Civ3 is flawless and perfect types need not read). Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by MarkG that's actually good, isnt it?

As a matter of fact it's not only good, it's great.

If only they had improved the interface to deal with it too :\

/dev

	23-11-2001 18:19									#26
	Re: Please correct me if I'm wrong... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Th0mas Don't you have the option to prevent Governors 'choosing' to build Wounders and/or Naval units? ( sorry I am at the office so don't have the game available....Also we use NT at work )

The problem isn't really the governor which is disabled but that the game "intelligently" tries to figure out what you will build next when a job is done.
As you may have guessed this intelligent feature is dumber than a brick and it will happily try to build tons of swordsmen when infantry is available etc.

/dev

	23-11-2001 18:24									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dev Thanks, I specificly mentioned you in the topic and yet you still had to post your (mandatory) junk.

i never said civ was flawless.
on the other hand, i do bother to read the manual and shortcut table first.
if you take out mark's posts, your posts consist of over 90% of this thread. it perhaps aint spamming but surely is strange

quote: and no I don't know who fellini is/was and I could care less, if I ever want to know I'll go look it up on a Fellini msg board if you know what I mean./dev

no, i do not know 'what you mean'. perhaps that you spent your life watching dinos eat and burp on screen?

	23-11-2001 19:23									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by LaRusso i never said civ was flawless.

Ohh that must be why you always have to post a one line reply whenever someone complain about something, valid or not.

quote: on the other hand, i do bother to read the manual and shortcut table first.

Your point is?

quote: if you take out mark's posts, your posts consist of over 90% of this thread. it perhaps aint spamming but surely is strange

Your point is?

quote: no, i do not know 'what you mean'. perhaps that you spent your life watching dinos eat and burp on screen?

[/quote]

Ok since you ask for it then I meant that you're a ****** ***** who can't tell the difference between a Civ3 msg board and a Fellini msg board, that clear enough ?

/dev

	23-11-2001 19:42									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Dev quote: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally posted by MarkG so having to use "wait" to not use a unit and "skip turn" to tell that unit to do nothing is that big a problem? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~# Yes it is. /dev

As has been described above, follow the games unit move selection order, then if you are in mid-stack when it jumps away to a worker you can press 'w' and continue moving the stack. The unit that has been ordered to wait will then be made active after the game has finished its current move cycle. This then does exactly what you want.

...it seems to me that you may need to change your playing habits from CIV 2, as you would have done for SMAC.

quote: The problem isn't really the governor which is disabled but that the game "intelligently" tries to figure out what you will build next when a job is done.

It won't if you use the queues...

	23-11-2001 19:45									#30
	Re: Interface and other complaints (Civ3 is flawless and perfect types need not read). Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Ok since you ask for it then I meant that you're a ****** ***** who can't tell the difference between a Civ3 msg board and a Fellini msg board, that clear enough ?

Ok, I think calming down might just be in order here...

quote: Originally posted by Dev Another thing that is immensly annoying in my world is that it doesn't update everything at the start of your turn, for example why does it have to cycle through 5 cities that just produced something before it announces the tech advance that lets me build the new improvement I want to start building in those 5 cities ?

For the simple reason that science accumulates city by city. If the first 5 cities in the upkeep cycle don't push you over the tech edge, then you won't get the tech until the 6th city succeeds in doing so.

I've just run across a small query I'd like an answer to - I have (just) managed to get my hands on some coal and iron, so I'm starting to railroad my roads. however, pressing R doesn't seem to do anything, I actually have to click the railroad button. Is this happenning to everyone?