24-11-2001 22:27									#1
	The Dreaded City-Trade Cheat - Needs a Patch Inflate your Upload Space

I have been one of the game system's defenders, but I must admit I've found a big design hole that probably could have been playtested more. I'm calling it the City-Trade cheat and I think we have to add it to the list of "Actions You Shouldn't Take If You Want The Game To Remain Challenging".

I haven't seen the Gold Bug yet so this is my first AI trading cheat.

If you conquer a city the AI is coded to view as important [a capital, or a wonder city] and then sue for peace, the AI will always accept. Not only that, but he will always be willing to trade one or more of his "unimportant" cities for the "important" city.

Unfortunately, here's what's wrong with the peace treaty:

1. Except for the units occupying the city you returned to the AI, the rest of your units remain in place, whether they're inside the AI's territory or not.

2. The city you returned to the AI will be empty of defending units.

If you have units with remaining hitpoints - and, since you're well-prepared, of course you do - you can simply re-occupy the city. And trade it back again. And re-occupy the city again. And trade it back again. You can do this until you run out of units with movement points, or the AI is down to just his capital city.

And cities you acquire via trade are at approximately zero risk of defecting. It is better to acquire cities this way than by conquering them.

The peace process MUST be changed. Either have a peace treaty immediately return everybody's units to their own territory, or have a city which is acquired by trade immediately occupied by the closest unit of like nationality. Even a single unit would do - if you have to FIGHT to take the city again, that's better than just walking in. I would prefer relocating units to your own territory, though, since that would solve this problem the best, AND would avoid the inevitable "Remove your units or declare WAR" message that has to come up on every turn immediately following peace.

	24-11-2001 22:33									#2
	Re: The Dreaded City-Trade Cheat - Needs a Patch Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ludwig I have been one of the game system's defenders, but I must admit I've found a big design hole that probably could have been playtested more.

No fuçking way!

quote: I'm calling it the City-Trade cheat and I think we have to add it to the list of "Actions You Shouldn't Take If You Want The Game To Remain Challenging". If you conquer a city the AI is coded to view as important [a capital, or a wonder city] and then sue for peace, the AI will always accept. Not only that, but he will always be willing to trade one or more of his "unimportant" cities for the "important" city. Unfortunately, here's what's wrong with the peace treaty: 1. Except for the units occupying the city you returned to the AI, the rest of your units remain in place, whether they're inside the AI's territory or not. 2. The city you returned to the AI will be empty of defending units. If you have units with remaining hitpoints - and, since you're well-prepared, of course you do - you can simply re-occupy the city. And trade it back again. And re-occupy the city again. And trade it back again. You can do this until you run out of units with movement points, or the AI is down to just his capital city. And cities you acquire via trade are at approximately zero risk of defecting. It is better to acquire cities this way than by conquering them. The peace process MUST be changed.

See my thread on the non-aggression treaty. Until this is implemented, these type of deals will occur. Making a non-aggression pact a part of a peace deal will make these peace treaties have some teeth, and cover the AI when he does stupid things, at least until they can program some sense ito the AI...

Venger

	25-11-2001 12:01									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Wouldn't this strategy ruin your reputation. It is like an invading army signed a deal to withdraw from a territory, but never did. The A.I. should be fixed to stop giving you more and more cities though.

	25-11-2001 12:36									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Venger is absolutely correct. I have seen peace treaties expire after 20 turns but I never understood b/c when you make them they say they last until war is redclared. Of course, I can't test out this theory b/c I can't locate my reputation anywhere (if I wrong, someone please please tell me where).