25-11-2001 12:06									#1
	UN Victory - too hard? Put an end to popups!

Just as a contrast to a competing thread about how "easy" the diplomatic victory is, I've lost every single UN election I've allowed to happen.

One thing that annoys me is that I haven't the slightest how to judge how someone is going to vote. OK, they're Gracious towards me, but how do they feel about Ghandi, who's building the darned UN?

Also, bribery doesn't seem to work worth diddly. I had 3 Vassals (England, Germany, and Russia), all of whom hated me for nearly wiping them out in the Ancient period. When it was clear Ghandi was going to build the UN, and I couldn't finish it first, I dumped all my technology, luxuries, and resources on my vassals. They stayed Furious and voted for that Indian skinhead.

So far, about the only ways I know of to deal with the issue are -

- Never let anyone else build the UN.
- Never permit any enemies who are Furious with you live into the Modern age, if it looks as if someone else will build the UN.

I much, much prefer SMAC's diplomatic system, which was based on population. It was also nice that SMAC allowed you to actually discuss the issue, i.e. you could explicitly buy votes for Planetary Governor or Supreme Ruler. In Civ 3, it seems all you can do is shower civ's with gifts and hope.

	25-11-2001 16:40									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

[...shrug...]

My very first victory was a UN victory. I thought it was too sudden and anticlimactic. I've turned it off now in all my games.

	26-11-2001 02:27									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Is there any way to prevent the game from asking you if you want to hold elections EVERY TURN after you build the UN?

	26-11-2001 03:02									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm continually amazed that other people don't turn off all victories except conquest

	26-11-2001 03:27									#5
	I do Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I turn off all victories except space race and conquest like in classic civ 2.

	26-11-2001 04:04									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like the UN and I have won that way .. diplomacy is my thing. Well, that's true .. except that diplomacy is somewhat lacking and I'm getting increasingly frustrated with it each game I play.

I haven't gone for all out conquest yet, but my inability to build the wonders before anyone else, inability to lead in culture, my recent loss of a city to a culture one fifth of mine, all pushes me towards the conquest style game.

As for your experience with people holding grudges since ancient wars ... I haven't experienced that in all truth.

I *DO* think that the computer is more capable of encouraging lasting friendships, however. I mean, I've managed to get people to be gracious towards me, but OMG it's hard work to keep it there for any length of time.

	26-11-2001 10:41									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If theres one thing my experience has taught me so far its TRUST NO ONE.

I've been backstabbed by gracious allies and that just about says it all. From the start I'm a mean lean land grabbing machine and if any cpu comes near my territory there getting flattened. I don't care if I go to war with the world I will make sure no cpu is withing 20 tiles of my empire. Those treacherous cpus are only going to build up near you and then demand tribute or war later on so I prefer the wipe out of all potential threats long before they become actual threats.

I am in the middle ages on reagent 9 cpus and I have built the great library, Bachs cathedral,Sistine Chapel,Copernacis observatory,Sun Tzu's, Leo's worshop, and I'm about to get Adam smiths and Magellens.

I'm under a republic and I have 31 cities on an extra large map. I'm still expanding even now and all my city locations are good.

If someone thinks this game is to hard on chieftan then they really need to learn how to play tbs games.

	26-11-2001 10:50									#8
	Remove this text

I think the key is how to handle the AI. I have found in my games that if I align all neutral powers against any AI that declares war on me, I am much better off in the long run. Here is my war strategy:

1) Decide to go to war
2) Find 1-2 AI players to get a mutual protection pact (after nationalism)
3) Figure out how to get the AI to declare war on me (crucial for fighting war in Democracy), either spy on the other country (if they catch them, they will often declare war, or keep telling them to get out of your territory, while infringing upon theirs (that really makes them mad).
4) Go to neighboring neutrals and bribe them to aid me in the war.
5) Fight the war, and move on down the road...

I have used this strategy repeatedly on Monarch, and it has almost always worked. Everyone loves me, and I basically have the computer eliminate the other AIs one by one. If I choose to go to the UN election, I win cause 75-90% of the AIs are either in a MPP or allied in a war with me against another player.

	26-11-2001 11:12									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

kiss some serious butt before holding elections... give cites, then the ai becomes gracious and will vote for you

MaSsConFusi0n