26-11-2001 18:46									#1
	A couple of tips Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A couple of tips from the games I have played so far.

1. Fill up all the space with cities or the AI will build a city on it, regardless of how bad a location it is. I left a large area of jungle around my capital with no cities, and the Chinese came and built several cities there, so my capital is surrounded. They also built on a desert area. Alternatively you could keep plenty of troops and if the AI builds any cities go and invade them.

2. Don't leave your armies in cities after you capture them. I captured a German city and while my army was in there recuperating, it defected back to the Germans, wiping out my army (this is a pretty crap game design - sorry Sid).

	27-11-2001 02:06									#2
	Re: A couple of tips Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Matthevv A couple of tips from the games I have played so far. ... 2. Don't leave your armies in cities after you capture them. I captured a German city and while my army was in there recuperating, it defected back to the Germans, wiping out my army (this is a pretty crap game design - sorry Sid).

Read "(this is a pretty traumatic game design ...)"

The first time it happened to me the city was too close to the opposing capital and I lost half my air force. But I adjusted to it, learned how the defections work, learned when to keep and when to raze, and what units to put into conquered cities (not your real valuable units).

How do you think other civs 'feel' when their cities defect to you?

	27-11-2001 03:01									#3
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quote: the AI will build a city on it, regardless of how bad a location it is

It's not just for territorial reasons that you should build on "bad" locations. There really isn't such thing as a bad location because of strategic resources. It's to your benefit to claim desert and jungle territory if you want things like oil, saltpeter, aluminum, rubber, coal and such. They don't exist in grasslands.

See my post Obtaining Scarce Resources where I say you should explicitly expand into these areas, or risk getting locked out of some essential resource later.

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	27-11-2001 17:36									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks for the replies.

The city that defected taking my army with it was just next to their capital. I was just waiting there with an army and three other units until they got their strength back before going to take the capital. It was only a couple of turns. I like the defection thing generally, which adds interest, but in this case the city should realistically have had no chance of defecting because it had just been invaded and the invading army still being there. As it stands I don't see how I could invade the Germans at all, apart from by razing all the cities as I invade them, because otherwise the cities will all just defect back nearly straight away, and there appears to be no way to prevent that happening.

It is a good point about needing to claim all kinds of terrain in case they have some resources in. I will know better next time!

	28-11-2001 01:17									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

How big was the city that defected? Apparently, one rule of thumb is that more units in a city helps prevent defection, and one unit per pop point is best. Your army should count as 4-5 units (I assume it was full strength), which is only good for small towns...

When warmongering, I tend to bombard cities down to 1-2 people before taking them, either that or taking them, filling them with multiple armies, then immediately producing workers of the whole population. Then I bring in my own workers to replace their population.

	28-11-2001 19:45									#6
	Support Apolyton

IIRC the defecting city was only size 5. I had an army (two swordsmen and a spearman), and two other units in there.

I just thought of a cunning plan. Capture the city, collect some gold, step outside, let it defect back, walk back in, collect more gold, repeat until the enemy Civ is broke.

	28-11-2001 20:34									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hmm. That comes out to six units (two swordsmen, the spearman, the army unit itself, and two unnamed). Then again, you did say it was right next to the capital, so maybe in that case six units wasn't enough to pacify five citizens, resisting or not.

As for continually retaking the city, yes, you can keep milking it for gold, but it'll take a while, and you may take losses. Especially if the city was Greek. When a city defects, it apparently gets a free defender of the best type available to the civ - spearman, pikeman, musketman, rifleman, infantry, mech infantry. This is to stop you from doing this very thing unless you invest in some powerful attack forces.

In the case of Greeks, they get hoplites, which are really difficult to overcome with swordsmen. Your army should do fine, but it'll sustain heavy damage. You might need a second army to help.

Furthermore, my theory is that the amount of gold you get is equal to the civ's treasury, times the population of the city, divided by the population of the civ. So if the only other city was the capital, and it was also size 5, you'd get half the civ's treasury every time. You'd never make it broke, but you'd certainly make it hurt.

	28-11-2001 21:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Note that the civ you are playing "city tag" with here gets some of your gold if he actually retakes the city (as opposed to a cultural reversion). The AIs seem to have a low treasury a lot more often than I do. So, just as easily, this strategy could end up costing money.

	28-11-2001 22:28									#9
	Support Apolyton

liberating a city for 3-9 gold is not the way to go.... raze the darn thing and take the workers they offer..they are free and basically replace the free tech of civ2

	28-11-2001 22:30									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Good point, Blaupanzer. Much less trouble simply to have the civ trade you all its gold for a peace treaty.