26-11-2001 19:23									#1
	check your treaties, stay polite Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

sometimes the AIs don't cancel treaties, that are helpful for them. e. g.: I gave the zulus incense for 4 gold/turn, world map and 10 lump sum. after 20 turns nothing happened. I waited a few turns, then spoke to them, the treaty was still active, but without the number of remaining turns. They gave me 30 gold and 9/turn a round, when I negotiated a new treaty for incense! i think treaties for strategic resources they need are even more likely to be "forgotten". don't let them get away with this!
sad there is no menue for detailed treaties.

another underestimated weapon is the peace treaty. it can always be discussed, if the number of remaining turns is not appearing at active treaties. If the advisor says one civ's military is weak, you can discuss a new peace treaty with them and get some gold/t or whatever (stay polite thereby and they will also!).

yesterday, after a long war vs the indians, were they lost more than half of their country, they were still "not intimitated by threats" (I only remember the civ2 phrase), when i wanted to mace peace with them. but at polite negotiations ("overextended") they gave me 2 of their remaining 8 cities. (the last ones on my continent, with iron and saltpeter).

Does anybody know how to switch visible civs at the foreign advisor, when there are more than 7?

	26-11-2001 19:33									#2
	Re: check your treaties, stay polite Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SanPellegrino Does anybody know how to switch visible civs at the foreign advisor, when there are more than 7?

Something like >Shift + Rightclick<.

	27-11-2001 00:43									#3
	Put an end to popups!

thx, PH you're right, wasn't able to find it out myself for two weeks

I hate those shortcuts, when you can't find it elsewhere, like shift+u for upgrade all units of a certain type, did you all know that one or have you upgraded manually 80 Pikemen to musketman like me? (ok, I confess, didn't read the hadbook before playing)

about treaties again: the peace treaty tactics is a bit similar to tech selling of course, but with one difference: you give away nothing but constantly drain the other civs, this keeps up your military, which must be bigger than theirs, which you can use for new conquest. Although they stay polite most of the time, better not try the UN victory...

	27-11-2001 14:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by SanPellegrino I hate those shortcuts, when you can't find it elsewhere

Me too!
I like playing 'mouse only'!

quote: Originally posted by SanPellegrino shift+u for upgrade all units of a certain type, did you all know that one or have you upgraded manually 80 Pikemen to musketman like me?

shift+u? Have to try this!
And well yes,... I did it manually.

	27-11-2001 19:27									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Der PH shift+u? Have to try this! And well yes,... I did it manually.

Good to know I am not the only one wasting his time

Update on treaties:
when i switched from republic to democracy, the AIs which paid tribute to me, used my period of anarchy to discuss the peace treaties. I was not able to get something from them, it wasn't even on the menu! Only normal peace treaties were acceptable to them. So I have to try again when those 20 turns are over.

Something I dislike:
During negotiations the advisor says "they would love to have some of our excess horses". I offered it and the AI wanted to give me world map, 10 gold.
horses vs. silks was "insulting" to them. It was early medieval, chivalry discovered, so horses were absolutely necessary to them! But they chose to be weak instead of giving me something worthy. weird, isn't it?

	27-11-2001 19:55									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SanPellegrino horses vs. silks was "insulting" to them. It was early medieval, chivalry discovered, so horses were absolutely necessary to them! But they chose to be weak instead of giving me something worthy. weird, isn't it?

Yeah, indeed!
I didn't manage yet to trade one luxury resource for another one without giving the AI a big bonus (gold, tech,...). Don't understand it, but don't play the game for a long time yet.

	29-11-2001 07:14									#7
	Put an end to popups!

I've managed it. Be patient. I think the AI does some figuring on how useful it is to you. For me, I got money from the Indians trading spices (I think) for gems or something. I had all the other 7 luxuries; I think they probably had 3 or 4. It was worth more to them to get the 5th than for me to get the 8th.

Also, the AIs seem to value world maps in the late game more than I do, so you can get money from that if you don't believe that you're giving away anything valuable.

quote: Originally posted by Der PH Yeah, indeed! I didn't manage yet to trade one luxury resource for another one without giving the AI a big bonus (gold, tech,...). Don't understand it, but don't play the game for a long time yet.

	30-11-2001 00:31									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by sophist Also, the AIs seem to value world maps in the late game more than I do, so you can get money from that if you don't believe that you're giving away anything valuable.

Yes, it seems a little bit strange, when you have the map of the whole world and trade it to your computer opponent, and then the next time you make a deal, you can sell the map for some more money again. AI...