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LoneWolf5050
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As you probably know, the civ3 manual is out of date and the stats in it for the units and other stuff is not accurate. I've made a reference file for civ3, from the real data in the civilopedia and editor. It includes:
--all unit stats, and their civilopedia graphics
--a complete tech tree, that lists all the units and wonders allowed by each advance
--all the terrain stats, with the terrain graphics
--all the resources and what they allow, with the resource graphics
--the effects of each government, and the civ specific abilities
--all the keyboard shortcuts
The file is quite big (over 1.5MB) so I haven't attached it. You can download it from this address:
http://www.magnamund.org/civ3.html
I hope you like it. : )
--LW
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:16
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Ditto! Quite complete and impressive! I only wish I had gotten something like this as an extra with my LE edition.
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LoneWolf5050
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I'm glad you all like the file. Yes, it's disappointing they didn't include more along these lines in the limited edition. I just got the standard one myself, mostly because the game has that cool interactive tech tree to begin with, so a fold out tree didn't seem like a big deal. I just added the tech tree to my file after someone else went to te trouble of transcribing all the info into one place. See the reference file thread on civfanatics for the whole story.
Resources: if you print the file in colour, you'll see that bonus, luxury and strategic resources have different background colours on the resource page. Yeah, that's not as distinct as actually labelling them, but really, do you need to know that anyway? (And they're listed on the terrain page under headings.)
Assimilation Chances: This would be a little misleading actually, because assimiliation chance is dependant on more than just governments. Also, this info is burried in the editor, it's not standard game reference info, like the upgrade paths of units. If you want it, dig. : ) Publishing it would be like publishing all the ins and outs of war weariness. That would kind of kill part of the magic of the game. Of course, if you want to include that kind of stuff, download the .xls version and away you go.
Anyway, I'll update the file whenever the patch is released (assuming it tweaks any stats) so perhaps some enhancements will find their way in then.
--LW
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LoneWolf5050
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I'm glad you all like the file. Yes, it's disappointing they didn't include more along these lines in the limited edition. I just got the standard one myself, mostly because the game has that cool interactive tech tree to begin with, so a fold out tree didn't seem like a big deal. I just added the tech tree to my file after someone else went to te trouble of transcribing all the info into one place. See the reference file thread on civfanatics for the whole story.
Resources: if you print the file in colour, you'll see that bonus, luxury and strategic resources have different background colours on the resource page. Yeah, that's not as distinct as actually labelling them, but really, do you need to know that anyway? (And they're listed on the terrain page under headings.)
Assimilation Chances: This would be a little misleading actually, because assimiliation chance is dependant on more than just governments. Also, this info is burried in the editor, it's not standard game reference info, like the upgrade paths of units. If you want it, dig. : ) Publishing it would be like publishing all the ins and outs of war weariness. That would kind of kill part of the magic of the game. Of course, if you want to include that kind of stuff, download the .xls version and away you go.
Anyway, I'll update the file whenever the patch is released (assuming it tweaks any stats) so perhaps some enhancements will find their way in then.
--LW
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by LoneWolf5050
Resources: if you print the file in colour, you'll see that bonus, luxury and strategic resources have different background colours on the resource page. |
Okay, I see it now.
quote:
Assimilation Chances: This would be a little misleading actually, because assimiliation chance is dependant on more than just governments. Also, this info is burried in the editor, it's not standard game reference info, like the upgrade paths of units. If you want it, dig. : ) |
Looking at the editor, assimilation chance seems to be dependent solely on governments. If you have additional info, please share it.
(Note: At the moment, several Civ3 mods add a 'Fascist' government with low or absent assimilation chance. After all, it may become standard game reference info.)
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LoneWolf5050
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I seem to remember reading something somewhere about assimilation being dependent on a whole bunch of things, such as the relative culture strengths, the proximity to capitals, stuff like that. Maybe not.
Anyway, assimilation chance is not covered anywhere in the manual, or in the civilopedia, as far as I know, so it's not standard reference data. And even if there are mods that tweak it, that doesn't make it standard data. A mod that adds a new improvement would have to classify it as growth/production/science, etc so the AI can figure out when to build it. But that doesn't make those settings part of normal data.
I take my cue from the game's creators, who revealed certain info in the manual. Yup, some of it was inaccurate info, but the overall scope revealed is important. To me, that's the limit of what the player should know in order to have a fun and challenging game experience, so that's all I care to put in my file. That's why details about war weariness, for example, wouldn't count IMHO.
But if you want to modify the .xls version for yourself, go right ahead. If anyone ever reissues the file, I just ask that proper acknowledgement is given on the shortcuts page. There's about 20-30 hours of work in this file.
(And can someone with admin privalleges remove one of my double posts up there, I tried and it won't let me.)
--LW
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by LoneWolf5050
I seem to remember reading something somewhere about assimilation being dependent on a whole bunch of things, such as the relative culture strengths, the proximity to capitals, stuff like that. Maybe not.
Anyway, assimilation chance is not covered anywhere in the manual, or in the civilopedia, as far as I know, so it's not standard reference data. |
IIRC, proximity to capitals is rather a crucial factor for defection (the cance that a city 'switches sides' to another civilization). OTOH, assimilation is the chance that a foreign cititizen in one of your cities will change his/her nationality.
I re-checked the whole issue, and it seems that I was wrong regarding assimilation chance. The manual states on page 132 that assimilation is also dependend from relative culture strength.
Just to be clear, I really appreciate your work and won´t modify it. In fact, I intend to open your pdf-file before starting my next game of Civ3 so that I can alt-tab for quick info. 
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LoneWolf5050
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And here I thought a PDF was a PDF was a PDF. I guess Adobe still has a couple kinks to work out. I created the file on a Windows machine, but that shouldn't matter. : (
I set it to be compatible with Acrobat 3, I think. Maybe that setting causes trouble on Macs. Or maybe I set it for version 4, and you don't have version 4 on your Mac?
Anyway, at least you have a windows machine for reading it on (and playing Civ3!).
Thanks for positive feedback guys. I made the file for my own use, and cause I like complete documentation. But it's great when others like one's work too! : )
--LW
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Jodo Kast
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Please get permission to distribute this file. Infogrames is really aggressive when it comes to stuff like this. Just like the German Version SHOULD be available (see: illegal translation), this document should also be available.
Also, this is similar to the Prima Strategy Guide's section on units, so DL this while it's still allowed... great job!
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LoneWolf5050
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Actually, the only thing here which they might object to is the use of graphics which are copyright to them. I should put a specific note about that in the next revision, not just the thanks that's on the first page.
The translation project was an obvious breach of copyright, since it was an attempt to alter parts of the game and redistribute it. Unfortunately, Infogrames left the lines between illegal modification and allowable modification extremely blurry, since just about any change to the game content would seem to count according to what they stated at that time.
The bottom line with the translation project, though, is it would eat into their German sales. That's why the trashed it. I would strongly suspect that any mod that does not overlap with a product they are selling (ie: German language Civ3) wouldn't be worth worrying about as far as they're concerned.
But this file is not game content, it's a collection of information about units and other elements of the game. So I don't see an issue (except about the images).
--LW (married to a lawyer)
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mmorett
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I have the PDF version and I'm noticing a string of consistent errors (I think).
Unless I am misinterpreting the info, the sheild costs for all units have an extra 0 added to them.
I noticed it at first with the stealth bomber (listed as 240 vs. 24 as per the editor). Then I realized ALL of the units have an extra 0 at the end of the shields cost section in the PDF file (Marines 100 vs 10).
I didn't check every unit but the ones that i did check were accurate -- except off by the extra 0.
Is this an error in the PDF?
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Jodo Kast
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24 turns x 10 shields = 240 (cost)
So in the guide if it says 240 it would take 10 turns to build with a city producing 24 shields? I think that's right...
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mmorett
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Jodo,
Let me try it this way:
1. according to the editor, "shield cost" = 24 for the Stealth Bomber.
2. acording to the PDF, "shield cost" = 240 for the Stealth Bomber.
I don't doubt your logic. I just see an obvious (for me) inconsistency. "Shield cost" is not something that needs to be interpreted. It is a spinner GUI control on the editor. It has a discrete value. It is not computed. It is what it is.
If I see 24 in the spinner control, I expect to see 24 in the PDF.
Am I being unreasonable?
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Eytanz
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Mmorett -
I don't think you're being unreasonable, but you're thinking of this from the POV of a MODer, while Lonewolf seems to have designed his doc for game players - see his comments about not revealing stuff not in the manual.
I feel this is the right decisin. Just like there is a spinner in the editor showing 24 shields, there is a display on the city screen showing 240 shields. People using the editor are naturally expected to be more knowledgable about it, and they will quickly discover by trial and error that every one shield cost in the editor = 10 in the game, and that they need to divide the value in the referrence accordingliy. People playing the game don't need to care about that, they just need to see that the referrence is accurate.
Eytan
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26-11-2001 19:34
Awsome!
: On page 9, add the assimilation chances of the different governments (1% for Anarchy and Despotism, 2% for Monarchy and Republic, 4% for Communism and Democracy).
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