28-11-2001 01:21									#1
	Diplomacy Bug/Design Flaw Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Renegotiating the peace treaty with an AI civ (for example peacy treaty + ivory : peace treaty + wines + 5G/T) it says that this deal will last until war is declared again. However the AI seems to be able to bring it up after 20 turns and the only thing on the table is the peace treaty. You cant renegotiate and if you refuse the offer then _you_ are the one that is considered declaring war. This is REALLY obnoxious when you beat the crap put of an opposing civ, take a good chunk of their cities and then in the peace treaty you offer them back their cities in exchange for a hefty gold per turn settlement. Then after 20 turns they turn around and politly ask you to renew the peace treaty which suddenly becomes enormously in their favor (they keep the cities and you no longer get your gold). They should have to declare war to get out of a peace treaty, or at least they should renegotiate the same way you have to!

	28-11-2001 01:24									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Nader, it's a bad implementation by the game designers again.

Declare war, then immediately afterwards suggest a new peace treaty with the demands you want.

I agree that the terms of the peace treaty should be renegotiatable every 20 years, it's just that the process for doing so isn't very well designed.

	28-11-2001 01:51									#3
	Support Apolyton

It works the same way in real life, so don't blame the programmers.

You can always offer another "deal"

	29-11-2001 07:19									#4
	Support Apolyton

Oh and on a side note if you are demanding resources from them the renegotiating wont work because for some stupid reason you can only demand resources if you are at peace

	29-11-2001 10:48									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I also sent this in to firaxis as a bug report.

	30-11-2001 02:59									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

See my post-it discusses more diplomacy problems-and there are A TON which could easily be fixed with a patch.

	30-11-2001 03:31									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

They really need to take a step back and redo the way Diplomacy is implemented. I know that this will never be a patch issue ... maybe a CivIV ... but they need to stop thinking inside the box.

I've dreamed of a much nicer system and I bet that there are some stunning ideas from the members of this forum ... very few of which are as linear of the current implementation.

Let's face it, it's YEARS on from Civ I and yet they are using the same bloody Diplomacy model.