28-11-2001 02:47									#1
	Proposed Combat Modification---Techlevel Adjustment Increase the size of your Attachments

I think that the combat system is fairly O.K. for the moment. I kind of like the newer hitpoint system for conscript/regular/veteran/elite levels of the units. I (like a lot of others) don't like the unreality that an Ancient Warror (by themselves) could significantly harm a modern day Tank. On the other hand, a Hord of Warriors should be able to Do Some damage to a modern unit (at significant losses to the warriors). Realistically, 200 warriors with axes can bury a tank with their bodies alone.

But what to change to "balance out" the situation? Increase the attack/defence rating of the more modern units based on what they could/should be the "ideal", thereby resulting in the 300/200/5 134/2/2 Battleship (factor of 16.67 increace compared to 1/1/1 Warrior). Or do we change the Hitpoints to reflect the "Real Damage" potential of the unit; i.e. 50 hit points for a Regular Battleship, 67 for Veteran and 84 for Elite. Maybe a combination of the two? What to do?

How about incorporating a Technological factor in the equation? Say a Privateer (1/1/3) is of tech level 3 and the Galley (1/1/3) is tech level of 1. That would be a difference factor of 2 (maybe scaled logarithmicly instead of linearly). Then a Veteran Privateer could take out an Elite Galley without sinking, but against an Elite Caravel (tech level of 2, difference factor of one), it would be a tuff fight. This would make the Combat engine more realistic but still allowing for the Massive horde effect to weight into the game.
It would also encourage the A.I. to switch to the more modern units sooner (if programmed in properly). Historically, the Zulu Army with their large numbers of Impi (with shields & Spears) did take out a fairly good sized English Rifle Brigade (with the most modern Rifle available at the time).

The actual scaling factor would have to be figured out and properly playtested, but a logaritmic multiplier seems best, from first impression.

Thoughts?

	28-11-2001 02:56									#2
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Pretty much the same idea i had.

Although i should warn you there is a large "Civ3 cannot be bad mouthed/improved" attitude around here

	28-11-2001 03:09									#3
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Yes that's true, but i've also real a fair number of complaints about the "new" system, that I felt compelled to post this posible solution. The main problem with this solution, is it would take more than a simple program patch to properly Implement.

	28-11-2001 03:43									#4
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If every units was given more hit points it would smooth out the odd combat results you are witnessing and be a fairly easy fix (I think, I don't know much/anything about programming).

	28-11-2001 03:56									#5
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Hit points can be increased in the editor.

	28-11-2001 04:05									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Evil_Eric_4 Hit points can be increased in the editor.

True, but the way I understand it is that it only modifies the amount of hit points a unit has at a certain morale level. Therefore I can't make all units have 10 hit points and one type of unit have 1 hit point. I suspect this will probably be patched.

	28-11-2001 05:41									#7
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Actually, I had a very similar idea, in which you give units an "Armour" rating (an abstraction I'll admit!) For units in each era.
Basically my thought was that Ancient units would have armour 1-2, Middle Age units would have armour 2-3, industrial 3-4 and modern 4-5.
In my model, the Armour number of a unit divided the % chance of a unit doing damage ( ie. the number obtained from AS/(AS+DS)). This isn't a perfect system, but if it could be done, it would allow modern units to kill more ancient units before copping any serious damage!!
P.S: Armour reflects both a units ability to resist damage (actual armour), and factors like weapon range and "Rate of fire"

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	28-11-2001 06:06									#8
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My Idea is basically to modify the existing setup. If you have a 1/1/3 Level 1 Vet vs. a 1/1/3 Level 3 Vet, the odds should be more towards the Level 3. In the above, if a Privateer attacks a Galley (both Vet) then the Privateer gets sunk with the Galley down to one or two HP's left. Realistically, this shouldn't happen. Say that both move the same speed over water, but the Privateer is far more manuverable and should win most of the time, albert not completely unscaved. Plus, the Privateer HAS Cannon vs. Bow & Arrow/Catapult. There should be an advantage there.