27-01-2000 16:20									#1
	The value of ACS! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We are all ready to say things like, "Apolyton taught me to play Civ", but just how true this statement is was brought home to me by the 'origins of OCC' thread dating from only February of last year that Graag has just bumped in the Strategy Forum.
In that thread legendary players were striving to get to AC with 'the minimum number of cities' and originally believed that one city was impossible!
Today, less than 12 months later, players like myself think little of an early twentieth century landing at OCC in their first two or three attempts. We are not better players than those pioneers - we have simply absorbed the wisdom of these fora!

Long live Apolyton!
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p.s. Can I have a T-shirt please?

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited January 27, 2000).]

	27-01-2000 21:52									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Although I wonder how much of the joy of discovery we might be losing. I only got CivII a couple of months ago (I never upgraded from CivI back in 96 because my computer at the time was a clunky 486. Or maybe it was that Master's degree that I was furiously trying to finish up). Checking out Apolyton I found threads about OCC, and remembered with fondness the single size 42 American city I would build on the earth map in CivI (I think my goal back then was to get to future techs, not land on AC).

Anyways, after having read Paul's strategy guide and trying my hand a couple of times, I was able to land in the late 1900s. Then I read through the guide again and wrote out a list of the preferred order of researching/building. Sticking to that, an 1800s landing isn't too hard. There are undoubtedly a few nuances which I have yet to get right, but playing an OCC game doesn't require much creativity.

So if you're a novice player, my advice would be to have fun for a few games before looking for any strategies in these forums that will improve your game but might take something away from it as well.

	28-01-2000 01:21									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Tom DeMille.... how is you can say some of the strategies will take away from your game?
I find that difficult to believe.... Apolyton can only enhance your game playing abilities by enlightening gamers to other successfull strategies or unsuccessful ones dejpending on you style. My game was already great and now because of Apolyton its even more deadly, as i have learned to do things according to the position i am in.

Sure maybe i didn't think up all my tactics on my own but who cares.... the bottom line is i do now and i am better for it.

	28-01-2000 01:51									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't know Warz, I think part of the fun for me with this game has been the long learning curve. I remember a c9,999 point game a year or two ago where I just couldn't get to 10,000 - now that wouldn't be a problem at all, but not because I figured it out. The sense of accomplishment from working it out for myself is a big part of gaming for me.


(sounds like you had good MP game going last eve. Remind Fran Tarkington that the Viks were 0-4 in Super Bowls. I'll get back into MP pretty soon.)

	28-01-2000 02:52									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

sorry i wasn't trying to jump on anyone there, and Sten Sture, i agree part of the fun or frustrtation with this game is the learning curve, but that aside, the forums and what we talk about enhance the civ experience for me ten fold.

Tom, thanks for the link to colonization and to civ1

Sten, yes the game is going well for me so far, but there is alot of gaming left especially with the wily Ming, Bird, and the ever trecherous Bird

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I am a civ addict. ARE U 2??????


icq 30200920

	28-01-2000 04:36									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Seems to me a lot of the above applies to SP. With MP, for all the great tips and advice that's available in these forums, nothing short of a great deal of playing MP with other humans will improve your MP game. That's the beauty of MP - it's a whole new ball game every time. Sure, the basic choices remain the same - but which choice to make?

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	28-01-2000 10:18									#7
	Remove this text

Finnie i couldnt' agree more.... the only way to become great at MP is too put in the time it takes to learn the strategies , even then, we all make mistakes and others capitalize on them

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I am a civ addict. ARE U 2??????


icq 30200920

	28-01-2000 16:21									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I must say, refining my strategy by playing and playing was great fun, and i do feel a new player might be losing something by getting a guide straight away. That said, when i discovered the world of civ on the intrnet i did enjoy tripling my civ2 sucess in one fail swoop. This was in the days before Apolyton, of course.
Who remembers civ2 heaven?

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

	28-01-2000 16:23									#9
	Suffering from ads?

The big difference in MP, of course, is the interaction with other players, which can count for heaps and heaps.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	28-01-2000 17:09									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I remember Civ2Heaven with great affection. The first challenge/comparison games originated there, after a call from Esko for honest deity players for a savegame challenge. I suggested and then made the very first Civ2 game log. Those days, few of us ever touched deity, and most hints on deity playing started with "Save often".

Whatever.
There are other challenges than OCC. No wonders. No palace. Despots in space. The 20% science civ. And more. House rules can still be made and played. And while we all know the receipt for ridiculously early OCC landings, Paul is still a better OCC player than anyone. It takes more than a set of rules.

C.

	29-01-2000 02:26									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I love this place... *wipes a tear from his eye*

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Its normal to be weird here and weird to be normal~ Brain

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CtG

	29-01-2000 03:59									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

A buddy of mine showed me civ and I started playing on his computer. Like most people here I ate civ, I drank civ and I dreamed and thought constantly about it. I was lousy, but it was great fun playing!

Today I'm still lousy even though I know a few more tricks ("sit, Pluto, sit!"). As with most things, routine rears its ugly head and sometimes I long for those "just one more turn"-days. But it's still a great game, the best there is. How many games have forums as active as these after such a long time?

If Civ3 should flop (AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH...) I think we'll still be here.

Carolus

	29-01-2000 07:12									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Cattulus, I hosted one of the very first tournaments/save game challenges on civ2heaven, and I remember your savegames being quite good. But we weren't that bad in those days, I mostly played diety at least. But i don't remember what level the tournaments were played on.

Either way, did you remember the civ2heaven message boards? I was a big contributor to civ3 ideas in those days (I remember the formaion of the popaganda tech, the internet as a wonder, i suggested a few new political systems and units). I'd love to read throught those archives if they exist anywhere, especially because I remember a lot of ideas that aren't in he civ3 apolyton page.

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

	07-02-2000 01:32									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I used to visit "this" site many times, back about 3 or 4 years ago when it was just Ultimate Civ2 Site... It was cool, "Messages from the emporer" and such. Of course it did not have a forum that I remember and was not nearly as comprehensive as Apolyton.

	07-02-2000 03:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Three cheers for apolyton.

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It's a wonder in this world when it takes a fascist to make democracy work ~ EvC

The only way to peace is through war. Conquer or be conquered.

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CtG