28-11-2001 06:32									#1
	Why playing with sliders can be good for you Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you use the science slider each turn, then this is not a post for you. If however, you enjoy leaving your science at a fixed rate, then I have some interesting news for you...

I've just finished my current game and whilst going through the later techs, I decided to examine what was going on with the science rate a little more closely...

To start with it's Greek Democracy, 8 civ's, standard size map, cheiftain diff. I have the tech lead by at least an age...

It's 1916 and I decide to research Stealth.
Turn#1 : Rate 80% (1,153 pts), +59 Gold, 5 turns to complete
Turn#2 : Rate 80% (1,162 pts), +61 Gold, 4 turns to complete
Turn#3 : Rate 70% (1,017 pts), +112 Gold, 3 turns to complete
Turn#4 : Rate 70% (1,017 pts), +155 Gold, 2 turns to complete
Turn#5 : Rate 70% (1,004 pts), +103 Gold, 1 turn to complete

Now there are some small variations in there (projects completing, pollution, etc.) but it's fairly clear here, that I made more money by switching down from 80% to 70% than I would have done had I left the slider at 80%...

Let's try this again...

It's 1926, time to research Genetics.
Turn#1 : Rate 80% (1,159 pts), -1 Gold, 5 turns to complete
Turn#2 : Rate 80% (1,194 pts*), +15 Gold, 4 turns to complete
*this is the turn I finished SETI & changed that city to wealth
Turn#3 : Rate 80% (1,184 pts), +10 Gold, 3 turns to complete
Turn#4 : Rate 80% (1,186 pts), +1 Gold, 2 turns to complete
Turn#5 : Rate 80% (1,1,72 pts), -3 Gold, 1 turn to complete

Again, some variations in the rate (apologies for the slight lack of foresight, SETI, dear oh dear >shakes head<) and this time no cigar, keeping the same rate worked...

One more try & this time I will note the other percentages to show what's going on...

It's 1936, time for Nuclear Power (there's a Homer Simpson in all of us).
Turn#1 :
Rate 70% (1,041 pts), +96 Gold, 5 turns to complete
Rate 80% (1,190 pts), -14 Gold, 5 tuirns to complete

(now that's what I've been trying to show...)

Turn#2 :
Rate 70% (1,047 pts), +98 Gold, 4 turns to complete
Rate 80% (1,198 pts), -14 Gold, 4 turns to complete

Turn#3 :
Rate 70% (1,047 pts), +96 Gold, 3 turns to complete
Rate 80% (1,198 pts), -16 Gold, 3 turns to complete

This next one's the kicker...

Turn#4:
Rate 60% (895 pts), +209 Gold, 2 turns to complete
Rate 70% (1,051 pts), +93 Gold, 2 turns to complete
Rate 80% (1,200 pts), -18 Gold, 2 turns to complete

And just in case that didn't say enough...

Turn#5 :
Rate 60% (909 pts), +208 Gold, 1 turn to complete
Rate 70% (1,067 pts), +92 Gold, 1 turn to complete
Rate 80% (1,218 pts), -19 Gold, 1 turn to complete

And there you have it. Whilst researching nuclear power, keeping the rate at 80% gave me the tech in 5 turns, but lost me 81 Gold, keeping it at 70 % gave me the tech in 5 turns again and gave me 475 Gold, but starting at 70%, then dropping to 60% with 2 turns to go, still gave me the tech in 5 turns but also gave me 707 Gold!

-81 or +707, hmmn, tough choice that one...

Anyway, I'm sure that most people check it occasionally, but if you have the time it won't be doing you any halm to check it every turn, especially since Gold plays such a large role in Civ3.

It's 01.20 here, yes, I am sad (possibly retentive), but fortunately I won this game in 1975 by diplomatic victory, which means that I can go to bed without thinking "just one more turn" . I was three turns from finising Integrated Defence, and for the benefit of those who read my last post, I was suffering from the AI denial strategy as no one would give me any coal or aluminium (the rotters) so even though I had the techs, I still didn't get to play with those toys! I wasn't about to start a war, but I did try to steal a city from the Aztec's, but it said they were immune to propoganda...presumably because they had a courthouse...hu hum


Well I should be off now, take care all,

Kokuei
(DtM)

Last edited by Kokuei on 28-11-2001 at 19:39

	28-11-2001 06:58									#2
	Support Apolyton

Oh yes, definately play with your sliders! Using them effectively can mean the difference between being able to build up a large army to quell an invasion and having to wait 17 turns for marines to come from your newer cities!

Checking every turn is monotonous, but the balance between time and money must be attained in order to compete at the higher game levels.

	28-11-2001 07:50									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

if your lead is huge it makes no difference..but admittedly i have been adjusting sliders on emp level and i am sure i will have to on deity i am sure

	28-11-2001 09:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have found that everytime you start a new tech you should adjust your sliders. Then on the last turn, you should adjust them again. If you do this, it usually (key word there) should not yield any more to readjust inbetween. The exception is when on turn one of a new tech you can slide it down to 0% and still get it in one turn. That usually means you could have gotten a little bit more out of it. This doesn't really happen very often, usually only if I forget to adjust it when I first select it.


Boy I hope this makes sense, as I have an eye strain headache and don't feel like proof reading it. Forgive me for that, BTW.

	28-11-2001 10:30									#5
	Tired of ads?

actually you should probably look at it any time you build new cities.....they can make a difference too......especially if you build more than one new one on a given turn

	28-11-2001 10:38									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Your right. New cities, science or commerce improvements, and science or Commerce Wonders. It was a general guidline though, as those things don't happen that often.

	28-11-2001 13:59									#7
	Tired of ads?

It's second nature for me now to check when there's 1 turn left (and with 2 turns left if I remember). That is a BIG money maker...

	28-11-2001 15:04									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

When it gets to four turns left it is time to check the slider, sometimes you can move it down 20 or 30% and still be on four turns. Then when it gets down to one turn check again, usually I can put it down to 10% and get some money in the bank. Then I sell it to the other civs, unless it gives me a wonder, get loads of money in the bank. I whack it up to 90%, losing loads of money per turn, but next advance in only 4 or 5 turns. If it is a wonder giver I can then start building my wonder before any other civ can get near. Then when my wonder is almost built I sell the advance and get etc etc etc

	28-11-2001 17:20									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Switching a city to or from Wealth production should mean looking at the sliders anyway.

	28-11-2001 22:31									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

wealth is poorly utilized in this game....i preferred civ2's capitalization.....there were more options with it.....

before economics wealth is a complete waste

	28-11-2001 23:52									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In my current Monarch game I'm experimenting with checking sliders every single turn. I want to come up a routine for when the best time to check is. So far, as others have stated, near the end of each discovery and at the beginning of new ones are most beneficial. Also, when you run into the 4/turn wall you can often reduce science dramatically and boost cash big time.

But so far I'm finding out it is to your advantage--as tedious as it is--to check every turn. Depending on your goals, there's almost always something worth tweaking to get that extra few gold that adds up over time. Lower levels this isn't necessary, but you need every dime you can get to compete at higher levels and this is a very effective way of doing it.

e

	28-11-2001 23:53									#12
	What if you have Wall Street? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then I suggest checking each turn if your bellow $1,000. After $1,000 it doesn't really matter because of the $50 max for interest. I don't think it will make a big difference on the total money you made. Compared with if you had changed your science rate on your last turn before you discover your tech. But if your tight on cash, the little extra you can make on the interest can make the difference between beeing able to buy that infantry and not. I personaly try to keep my funds above $1,000 just so I'm fully taking advantage of the Wall Street sm.

	29-11-2001 03:05									#13
	Not sure it matters Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am not sure it matters if you move the slider every turn or just the last one. I think if you tweak every turn you will get some of the gold quicker, but overall the total extra gold should be minimally different.

If you make the move on the last turn you will get a bonzana of gold perhaps 200-300 if not more. This is by going to like 10% on the last turn. If you had been tweaking every turn the last turn you might only get to go down to 20% Science but you got more golds during the past couple of turns. There is some time value of money advantage in that it is better to get some gold up front than all at the end, but if you don't need just wait and make the changes at the end.

Again, I haven't tested this in practice, but what my experience tells me. I'll see if I can give it a try in my next game.

Todd

	29-11-2001 03:10									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've noticed this too and think it's screwy - first, why is that the case whatsoever? Are the beakers (or whatever) not carried over? Because that would balance this problem out. Tweaking the slider every turn is nonsensical, and shouldn't be rewarding...

Venger

	29-11-2001 06:07									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Venger, if leftover beakers were accumulated, you'd break through the 4-turn limit. Either the limit goes or you throw away the remainders. It's a bit dodgy, but I think it's probably necessary. If they had an option to automatically adjust this in order to maximize both research and revenue for some turn limit, that would be a fair compromise.