28-11-2001 21:21									#1
	Help Kai with his legal costs - sign up HERE Get a bigger avatar today!

Having seen this nonsense, I hate to see Kai hung out to dry for his lawyer costs.

Kai - post or send us your legal bill - and open a PayPal account. I will send $5 to the account. I ask others here to sign up and do the same. We need enough to pay for your bill, EXCEPT - for $5, which you gotta chip in as well!

Anyone on board with this? It's just $5 and would make a statement from Apolyton about how much we appreciate the efforts of those in the community who improve the game for everyone, and for all the sacrifices they make to do them.

Consider my $5 signed up. Kai, let us know when you have an account opened and the email address so we can get it going. Guys, when you sign up, post your PayPal receipt info number into your post (edit it). Show that follow through...

Venger

	28-11-2001 21:32									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Glad to see you came up with another Venger thread idea! The laws of nature are happy, now. All is right with the universe...

Put me down for $0.

	28-11-2001 21:36									#3
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Kai was an idiot. What did he think Infogrames would do when he told them that he would make a German translation of Civ3 for free? Of course they're not going to be happy. They're in the business of making money. He should have never notified Infogrames, he should have just released the translation, only making sure to remove his name so the company would have no one to go after. Plain common sense.

	28-11-2001 21:47									#4
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Let the french have their revenge on the Germans

	28-11-2001 21:53									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Executor Kai was an idiot.

Yes, you have to be an idiot to mod a game that is said to be made mod-friendly. Really.

quote: What did he think Infogrames would do when he told them that he would make a German translation of Civ3 for free? Of course they're not going to be happy. They're in the business of making money. He should have never notified Infogrames, he should have just released the translation, only making sure to remove his name so the company would have no one to go after. Plain common sense.

I think that it's a pure shame that honesty is rewarded by punishment. Would Infogrames Germany has sent a letter saying "sorry, but due to copyright, we can't allow you to make this mod", all would have been fine. But sueing and sending your lawyer bill for that is not only overkill, but just plainly acting like a money-grabbing bastard. Period.
I know a company is made to make money, but it's not a reason to act like a shark.

	28-11-2001 22:25									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Venger, I'll support your campaign with a 10 EEK cheque. Hopefully that's enough.

	28-11-2001 22:42									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think it's time for everyone to start flooding infogrames emails. This is ridiculous. Who the hell do they think they are? I am also for razing the infogrames building to the ground.

	28-11-2001 22:44									#8
	Me Five Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am in too for the paypal support.

-mario

	28-11-2001 22:46									#9
	Remove this text

It wasn't stupid for Kai to mod his game. It WAS stupid to organize it in that fashion. It's his own fault. Move on.

	28-11-2001 23:06									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think its sick that the layers are making money off this, he has to pay just to sign a crummy document?

	28-11-2001 23:10									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This is a thread for those who want to help Kai to sign up. This is not a thread for:

1) a$$holes like GP who never have anything worthwhile to say

2) You to discuss what Kai did - that's being done in other threads, and God forbid we have more than one...

3) Debate anything, period.

This is for people who want to help Kai do it via PayPal. I want to. Others will as well. If you don't, please SKIP it, we don't need the commentary...

Venger

	29-11-2001 07:22									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well lets see. It took me about 1/10 of a second to decide. Count me in. Could have just as easy been me. I applaud u for the idea Venger.

	29-11-2001 07:37									#13
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quote: Originally posted by napalm010 Well lets see. It took me about 1/10 of a second to decide. Count me in. Could have just as easy been me. I applaud u for the idea Venger.

Thanks, it's the least I think we can do - it's the cheapest solidarity you'll ever buy.

Can someone contact Kai (is he in the userlist?) to let him know to open an account? Even if it's just a few people, it'll be worth it.

Venger

	29-11-2001 11:51									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Venger Thanks, it's the least I think we can do - it's the cheapest solidarity you'll ever buy. Can someone contact Kai (is he in the userlist?) to let him know to open an account? Even if it's just a few people, it'll be worth it. Venger

Hi Venger,

I one of the threads there is an exchange between Mark and Kai (Coldfever: I think). I will push it up though it is easier to find.

For all the morons who think you are stupid to offer help. Some more details of the story (My point of view what I glimpsed on the official german forum and the responses from infogrames).
He offered his help via E-Mail and the official Forum to work together and speed up the development process of a german translation . He told then it would be a Fanprojekt and he hoped Infogrames and Civ will profit from their effort.
It seems that he even got an answer that infogrames thought is was a good idea in the beginning and that they could even expect a small token recompense. Kai made than the suggestion that infogrames should donate a small amount of money for wellfare that would be enough. Long time no reaction. Suddly somebody at infogrames pulls a brake. And send a lawyer + letter..... A really nice letter: HE should sign that he is responsible for not a defined amount of money due to the damage he did to infogrames germany+ lawyer bill of infogrames.
Not enough now it seems that other Admins. receive nice letters from the lawyers of Infogrames that they should not only stop to post translation files that they should even close done every thread discussing the topic of the behavior of infogrames.

Venger,

	29-11-2001 12:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Venger Can someone contact Kai (is he in the userlist?) to let him know to open an account?

Hi Venger, this is Kai Fiebach from Germany,
I want to thank you for your initiative, but currently I prefer not to take your offer, as I have no official letter from Infogrames yet that the affair is settled for them and also I have no final bills to pay (I hope/expect to receive both by next week).

And to be honest: the whole thing was my - probably naive and stupid - idea to help the Civ3 community and the Christmas sales of Civ3 in Germany, so I think it is only fair to face the consequences by myself, as long as I can handle it - I calculated I just have to abstain from buying any more games for about 4 years… and in the current frustration (I just don't feel like playing games anymore) this looks to be feasible.

At last I will be very glad once the whole issue will be over - but a donation campaign will probably only prolong the unworthy life of this issue. Nevertheless, I really appreciate the community support as it insures me that I am not totally isolated against the "business machinery".

What finally puzzles me is that from our fan translation experience we calculated that a professional translator could have done the whole Civ3 translation in about 150 hours - a month of concentrated work. 3 professionals could possibly translate the whole project in about 14 days. Why Infogrames did assess several months for this is only one more riddle in the weird puzzle that has become of all this.

	29-11-2001 12:44									#16
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If this had happened in America, somebody at Infogrames might have been shot. I'm not kidding. Sad as that is to say. So I really applaud you for being so calm and rational.

That being said, it seems you gave them every effort to tell you EARLIER not to continue. The fact that they did this in this way only after a long silence sickens me.

I know my boycott of Infogrames stuff won't make any difference, but I truly and honestly hope more people hear about this and simply refuse to support such a disgraceful group of people ever again.

That said, I'd like to suggest this:

Please list here over the next several months the games that you would like to play. I will personally have one of the titles shipped to you. If other people like Venger kick in, you'll soon be swimming in games!

Spoken like a true gamer. Don't send him money ... he wants games! Salute!!!

	29-11-2001 20:20									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hell I'm tempted to send him 50 burned copies of Civ3 for his closest friends - take THAT Infogrames...

Kai: let us know if you change your mind. Now that I know your handle it'll be easier to find you next time...give'm hell!

Venger

	30-11-2001 06:47									#18
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Well Kai I disagree on a few of your views of the subject.

Namely that it happened because of u being naive. I have to date found nothing that I see as being naive or stupid on your part. Only on Infogrames.de's part of being more forceful then was rationally needed.

Also do not feel this issue has a "unworthy life". It shows the companies attitude and treatment toward their customers. Which I believe is a very enlightening look at the current and future decisions they will make.

I only put in my views on this because I felt the need to say why I disagreed.

That said, I feel your actions that I know of have been completely honorable and just. If u ever change your mind on help with legal fees, I would be proud to help.

	30-11-2001 07:45									#19
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those bastards...i told y'all this from the beginning. Infograms people are just money hungry lichens...can someone post a link where i can see the whole story?