29-11-2001 00:20									#1
	New Wonder Ideas Inflate your Upload Space

Building Wonders is one of my favorite things about playing Civ. In fact, I often find myself more worried about how I'm doing in a Wonder race than I am when threatened with a major war. So, for all you mod-makers out there, and those who play them, what kinds of new wonders are you putting in your games, or would like to see put in them?

First of all, I would like to see some of the older Wonders back in the game, like the Statue of Liberty.

I also thought of putting in a pretty powerful wonder called Holy Scriptures, which provides a temple in each of your cities. A big culture bonus in new cities like that may be too un-balancing, though.

Of course, if your going to do that, you need a counterpart for cathedrals, although I don't have a good name for it (The Vatican? Mecca? The Cathedral in Every City Wonder?). Again, the same problem about play balancing as above.

I have a cool idea for a small wonder called The Olympic Games, triggered when a player has established an embassy with all other civs (I know, I know, probably not possible. If it's not, then I'll just tie it to an appropriate tech).

I would also like to see Hollywood as a cultural Wonder, and maybe a corresponding small wonder called The Super Bowl (I like baseball too, but The Super Bowl has more of a Wonder sound to it than The World Series).

Anyway, these are some of my ideas, and I'd like to hear yours, too.

	29-11-2001 02:57									#2
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quote: Originally posted by DaleC76 I have a cool idea for a small wonder called The Olympic Games, triggered when a player has established an embassy with all other civs (I know, I know, probably not possible. If it's not, then I'll just tie it to an appropriate tech). I would also like to see Hollywood as a cultural Wonder, and maybe a corresponding small wonder called The Super Bowl (I like baseball too, but The Super Bowl has more of a Wonder sound to it than The World Series).

Love the olympic games and hollywood wonder ideas.

Being Canadian, i'd have to go with the Stanley Cup though

But yeah, to add to your list:

L'Academie (small wonder) - increases effects of universities on same continent. IDEA: the first academy was founded in Paris for the study of human rights/nature and such. subsequently, the academy of fine arts in france was the second to open under napoleon the third and created the cirriculum and standard for grading that we all know today.

SETI (small/great wonder) - increases rate at which SS parts are made. IDEA: SETI in the US has done lots to increase public support and gov funding for space programs since its conception.

Greenpeace (small wonder) - reduced pollution across civilization. IDEA: founded by people protesting nuclear weapons testing in the 70s, greenpeace HQs have sprung up all over the globe and have help fund and start thousands of environmental movements that have made our world a better, cleaner and more educated place.

oh no! I'm late for class!!!

I'll be back later to edit this and continue my list ... i have a few more ideas but i just don't have time now..

Be Back Soon!
Cheers
~Alex

	29-11-2001 10:57									#3
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I like most of ur ideas but Greenpeace is a bit tricky for it requires democracy government and it should block some of the production.
For instance the French government considers it as a terrorist and submersive movement (even though it is the French government that actually bombed their ship).

I would love to work on some with you but I would like some older and more exotic ones as well like Angkor for instance.

I found some photos on the UN website dedicated to the worldwide mankind heritage which is a good staring points for ideas and photos.

I like the island of museums in Berlin to double culture in the city for example, the Hannibal harbor in Carthago to produce veteran marine units from all cities.

If you want we work on that, fell free to contact me. I guess I should be OK with the civilopedia, selection and benefits but I cannot do much about the graphics except for the photos one can download.

Regards,

Ludovic

	29-11-2001 21:02									#4
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I'd like to see some more late game wonders (and the game to go another 50 years). Like...

Truth & Reconciliation Commision or War Crimes Tribunal. (Great.) Similar to Women's Suffrage--lowers unhappiness during peace time, increases stature. Enabled by some new tech, something along the line of Oppresion Theory or Violence Studies. For the scientific/diplomatic players.

World Bank/IMF. (Great) Same as Wall Street but later in the game. The effect of having both in the same city would be as powerful as Copernicus + Newton in the same city for science.

I like the Olympics idea. Can you have great wonders that have triggers, like the the small wonders? Maybe you could rig it up so it's kind of rare, since the modern Olympics are just a century old. Or tie it to steam power, so that it's a global transportation issue?

I think we have enough religious wonders as it is--and I have two degress in religion!

	30-11-2001 00:05									#5
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What if you could have the olympics trigger a 4 turn golden age, which each player would get once, in a random order. THis special golden age would double culture

	30-11-2001 02:17									#6
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A Wonder must be something that impress every nations in the world right? well sorry about that, but except americans and some canadians, no one in the world cares about your Superbowl. In the same kind of idea, the idea of the FIFA World Cup or the CIO (Olympics) is maybe more universal (everybody plays soccer, even chinese and yankees).
I like the idea of Mecca or Vatican just as a replacement of JS bach Cathedral. You can for that switch the music theory advance to the organized church advance... it's an idea.
If I'm talking about that, it's just that it looks more accurate to see that an organized church allow more power to every cathedral than a composer in Germany. I don't have nothing against Bach of course, but something like the London Opera House or like the Berlin Philarmonic Orchestra looks to me better in the idea of music.
As a stupid french girl incredibly arrogant, I would of course see a small wonder such as the Eiffel Tower that attracts tourism in the city where it's built and then put an extra commerce in each produced tile. That would be triggered by something like steel (Eiffel Tower has been built to prove the vertues of steel at its Golden Age), or by Mass Production (Tourism for everyone is a consequence of mass production).

	30-11-2001 03:29									#7
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I think small wonders should be made to be civ-specific. That way, the same wonder called The Super Bowl in one civ could be the World Cup or Stanley Cup in another. I like the Eiffel Tower small wonder idea, and it would prevent there being as many as 16 Eiffel Towers in a game. It could be Mount Rushmore for Americans, Big Ben for the English, The Sphinx for the Egyptians ect. I have no idea if that's possible, though.

	30-11-2001 04:13									#8
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Probably not possible, what are the Zulu's going to have? The Great Straw Hut ?

I'd like to have a go at the graphics

	30-11-2001 04:50									#9
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If we want to take the Zulu as representative of all African tribes, then how about Great Art Museum (or something along those lines)? Tribal art was extremely important, and its cultural impact continues to be felt.

	30-11-2001 04:54									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Marla In the same kind of idea, the idea of the FIFA World Cup or the CIO (Olympics) is maybe more universal (everybody plays soccer, even chinese and yankees).

Yeah, but lets get serious ... this is SOCCER you're talking about ... who likes soccer???

LOL

Cheers everyone
~Alex

	24-12-2001 22:05									#11
	Re: New Wonder Ideas Got spare money?

I've created a Mint small wonder available with Currency, with Palace as a required improvement. Plus I dropped the Rubber resource and included Copper instead as another requirement. It works the same as Wall Street, but is available early on. It really helps out with trying to build up my army.

I've also created a Mass Media small wonder with Satellites that's supposed to reduce war weariness throughout my nation, and increase the treasury by 5%. I haven't made it that far yet to see how it works.

I really, really wish there was a cheat function, like ToT so I could test this stuff without having to play a whole game!! Firaxis, do you hear?

And it's not a wonder but I have Resort improvement that has to be built on the coast with Steam Power, and a Spice requirement as well as a marketplace. I used to have Wine as well, but I switched my Gold to a luxury instead so I could add Fruit to my bonus resources. Anyway, it increases the city tax by 50%, as well as the luxury trade. I was thinking of the old English seaside resorts during the railroad boom.

	05-01-2002 09:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Marla A Wonder must be something that impress every nations in the world right? well sorry about that, but except americans and some canadians, no one in the world cares about your Superbowl. In the same kind of idea, the idea of the FIFA World Cup or the CIO (Olympics) is maybe more universal (everybody plays soccer, even chinese and yankees).

What the heck is a superbowl???, is that why Americans are so damn FAT?

quote: As a stupid french girl incredibly arrogant, I would of course see a small wonder such as the Eiffel Tower that attracts tourism in the city where it's built and then put an extra commerce in each produced tile. That would be triggered by something like steel (Eiffel Tower has been built to prove the vertues of steel at its Golden Age), or by Mass Production (Tourism for everyone is a consequence of mass production).

A consequence of tourism should be TERRORISM, which takes a lump sum off CULTURE. IE who wants to visit NY these days?

PS, it's nice to see members of the fairer sex in these forums, all these guys get rather BORING. And don't call oneself stupid!, I'm the one who doesn't know what a superbowl is!

-Pieter Lootsma
Wellington, NZ

	05-01-2002 09:42									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Probably not possible, what are the Zulu's going to have? The Great Straw Hut ? I'd like to have a go at the graphics

What about with my MAORI mod, the WAITANGI TRIBUNAL?!?!?!


I was wondering where you are located.
Grrr!!
Pieter Lootsma
Wellington, NZ

	05-01-2002 21:53									#14
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smaller wonders

palace of versailles or parliament - monarchy only

kremlin - communism only

white house - democracy only

warsaw pact - easier to convert border cities or something. would only be built under communism

national park or something along those lines - every country just about has parks and preserves

theme park like disneyworld - cultural

the crusades - religious

martin luther or calvin wonder - like martin luther academy or something religious. triggers golden age of religious societies

iron curtain - dont know what tis would do...defense bonuses if possible?

golden horde - same as above but maybe with offensive bonus

tower of pisa - some cultural wonder

	05-01-2002 22:02									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Mistoffeleez smaller wonders palace of versailles or parliament - monarchy only kremlin - communism only white house - democracy only warsaw pact - easier to convert border cities or something. would only be built under communism national park or something along those lines - every country just about has parks and preserves theme park like disneyworld - cultural the crusades - religious martin luther or calvin wonder - like martin luther academy or something religious. triggers golden age of religious societies iron curtain - dont know what tis would do...defense bonuses if possible? golden horde - same as above but maybe with offensive bonus tower of pisa - some cultural wonder

Parliament is a democracy thing. Think of it as the British version of the House of Representatives. I'm using a High Council SW for Monarchy. Every monarch had a small group of nobles that he relied on for advice and info so having them involved would naturally reduce corruption.

	05-01-2002 22:11									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DaleC76 I think small wonders should be made to be civ-specific. That way, the same wonder called The Super Bowl in one civ could be the World Cup or Stanley Cup in another. I like the Eiffel Tower small wonder idea, and it would prevent there being as many as 16 Eiffel Towers in a game. It could be Mount Rushmore for Americans, Big Ben for the English, The Sphinx for the Egyptians ect. I have no idea if that's possible, though.

But if there's only one of each, they'd wouldn't be small wonders anymore right? I agree though, it would be nice to be able to select a specific nationality or government type as a requirement. There is a government selector now, no nationality, but you can only select one type or none. I have a Mass Media SW, that I don't believe should be available to a Communist government, but I can't be selective that way.

	06-01-2002 16:33									#17
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Overall, I think the game needs more industrial and especially modern age wonders. I either have all my cities set on Wealth or I take a turn to two to crank out 40 military units then it's back on Wealth. More wonder ideas:

The Louvre or The Smithsonian - after Scientific Method - increases culture, maybe commerce (tourism?) or science.

The Mayo Clinic or World Health Orginization - after Medicine ? Ideally, I think I'd take Genetics which allows 2 wonders (Cure for Cancer and Longevity), rename Longevity to Human Genome Project and Cure for Cancer to WHO.

I really like Mass Media, especially after Satellites.

Sydney Opera House - cause I'm going to like the graphic

Internet - after Miniaturization (allows you to see the Coffee Resource?)

Greenpeace - after Ecology

I also like the Eiffel Tower after Steel in the Industrial Age

The Automobile - after Mass Production.

I'd also really like to see the Starbucks Small Wonder, requires 8 coffee houses. Provides a coffee house in every city on the same continent. Coffee Houses require the Coffee resource.

	06-01-2002 16:49									#18
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Hey Grrr,

far be it from me to be un-PC, but the Waitangi Tribunal a wonder!!?!?

Maybe if you want to give the AI more of a challenge by building a wonder that gives you some culture at first, but increasingly, as its culture rating increases over time, starts to slowly require more and more maintenance.

How about a National Park like Mt Cook (I think that's what it's called), or Yellowstone etc for Americans? Tourism bonus - more trade and less pollution?

Otherwise for some reason I thought of _Auckland_ as a wonder - and I can't get my mind off of it!


Perhaps it's just late and I go back to work tomorrow, er, today.

Oh crumbs.

	06-01-2002 22:23									#19
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quote: Originally posted by homegrown Overall, I think the game needs more industrial and especially modern age wonders. I either have all my cities set on Wealth or I take a turn to two to crank out 40 military units then it's back on Wealth. More wonder ideas: The Louvre or The Smithsonian - after Scientific Method - increases culture, maybe commerce (tourism?) or science. The Mayo Clinic or World Health Orginization - after Medicine ? Ideally, I think I'd take Genetics which allows 2 wonders (Cure for Cancer and Longevity), rename Longevity to Human Genome Project and Cure for Cancer to WHO. I really like Mass Media, especially after Satellites. Sydney Opera House - cause I'm going to like the graphic Internet - after Miniaturization (allows you to see the Coffee Resource?) Greenpeace - after Ecology I also like the Eiffel Tower after Steel in the Industrial Age The Automobile - after Mass Production. I'd also really like to see the Starbucks Small Wonder, requires 8 coffee houses. Provides a coffee house in every city on the same continent. Coffee Houses require the Coffee resource.

That's always been a problem with Civ as far as I'm concerned. After awhile all the cities are pretty much the same, and there isn't really anything to build anymore. I'm glad with this editor I have the opportunity to correct that by creating my own. And thanks for the Mass Media endorsement. I kind of thought it was a no-brainer myself.

And I think there should be more purely cultural improvements, designed to reduce war weariness. For instance, I've created a concert hall with the discovery of Music Theory, again a no-brainer. With 5 of of those I can build the Carnegie Hall SW. I also thought it would be kind of cool to have a wandering minstrel unit. He just wanders from town to town, making one happy face, and adding a cultural point while he's there.

I've also added Art Gallery with Free Artistry, and The Louvre SW once I have 5 of those. And for god sakes, no radio station with Radio, or Newspaper with Printing Press? Come on. Or how about a TV station with Electronics? It seems the Firaxis definition of what constitutes a modern civilization is rather superficial. They really haven't added very much in the way of improvements since the first one came out. In fact, whatever happened to Stock Exchange? It's a little silly being able to build Wall Street in 1450 AD, as I was able to do recently.

	07-01-2002 01:45									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Hey Grrr, far be it from me to be un-PC, but the Waitangi Tribunal a wonder!!?!? Maybe if you want to give the AI more of a challenge by building a wonder that gives you some culture at first, but increasingly, as its culture rating increases over time, starts to slowly require more and more maintenance.

This would be a REAL challenge, both to AI and to human players.

quote: How about a National Park like Mt Cook (I think that's what it's called), or Yellowstone etc for Americans? Tourism bonus - more trade and less pollution? Otherwise for some reason I thought of _Auckland_ as a wonder - and I can't get my mind off of it! Perhaps it's just late and I go back to work tomorrow, er, today. Oh crumbs.

AUCKLAND a wonder! I may be an expat JAFA, but, I don't find AUCKLAND that wonderful, seriously!, whats so great about the Otara Chopping Centre, CHowick, Ponsnoby, and the Bombay Hills.

Hurray, don't have to get back to work !
I'm still at school, and work there too!

	07-01-2002 06:30									#21
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Well, the rest of the country looks at Auckland... and wonders...



And I work for school too, well, Uni anyway. But in the Hutt. But they have hi-speed 'net meaning I can get some quality goofing off here!

	07-01-2002 06:44									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Well, the rest of the country looks at Auckland... and wonders... And I work for school too, well, Uni anyway. But in the Hutt. But they have hi-speed 'net meaning I can get some quality goofing off here!

Sadly Kuranui College does not have such resorces, but thanks to that I am head IT technician, teachers here don't know anything. Anyway, because I have the admin passwords I can do what I want!