29-11-2001 23:48									#1
	IG rule is not precise enough Remove this text

Quoted from Apolyton News which was quoting IG (Infogrames):

quote: : If someone has plans to change or otherwise use sections of the product, the appropriate person or group of the owner of the rights or a legal agency (in this case Infogrames) must let themselves be given a written permission

I MAY have got all false, withmy English that isn'tperfect...
But let me look to this... So if we're 500 modders (and I guess we're more) we need to call them?? Did I got it right? This is like asking Starcraft mapmakers to call Blizzard each time they're drawing a map...

I guess they don't INTEND to use this against all modders, but it just could legally be done.

I know they're puting this to avoid anyone that would pass the limits (which I accept), but they should restrict this rule. For now, I wonder if they could ask for the right to take what would have been made by a modder by saying that it was made on their stuff and just use what the modder would have done and put rights on it... If they can do that, then I just say that their rule is not exact and should be tweakened...

Or, other way, they could give a list of things that they automatically accept. For exemple, changes made on government type files, or units, or else. Their main goal is to avoid someone that would give problems to oneof their productsby using one of their products.

	30-11-2001 00:28									#2
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If I could afford the legal fees I would be strongly tempted to send them the text of the Civ 3 site page on modding and claim I had implicit permission from Firaxis to do anything I like whith their product, provided it came in the form of a mod that required users to purchase Civ 3 to run it.

	30-11-2001 01:22									#3
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My guess is that anyone who modifies anything outside of _their_ editor and then releases it could be subject to legal issues

Its already discouraged me from making a stand-alone random map generator program with customizable parameters like # of continents, and how many civs per landmass, which I was thinking about doing once the bic map file format was disected enough. Its not worth a $500 fine though. Its not even worth the trouble of writing them a letter and asking nicely if I can make their game better for everyone who bought it.

	30-11-2001 08:31									#4
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I think it's seriously a trouble. I'm not saying they will overprofit of such rules they made (nothing stops them from not using them entirely) but the possibility is stil there, showing the weakeness of such rules. And it may stop many. Who will go ask permission to a company? A lot easier to stay asleep longer in the morning or play Civ III. But if I was you, I'd ask them the permission... stil better than nothing if it's the only way. Only it'd be one person which it wouldn't stop.

	30-11-2001 10:15									#5
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Hey dude, if you can make a map editor like that, I'll pay a couple hundred bones to the lawyers for ya.

	30-11-2001 10:20									#6
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perhaps they are worried someone will find the hidden MP code and allow people to play MP beofre they release their version which would cost money !!!!!!!

	30-11-2001 11:08									#7
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Heh

I actually meant a random map generator not an editor, and Im pretty sure I could make one if the bic file is disected with regards to everything that a map file has to have. But I honestly don't even if they sent me a letter with the file format themselves and explicit written permission in the form at the same time Finals are coming up and life generally stinks as a result :P

Actually I know I can make a random map generator, thats a large part of my software engineering class project that is giving me so many fits this week as I try to right up the design paper on it :P



Assuming I had time and they released a statement that made it clear it wouldnt be a problem to do it though.....

What I had in mind though basically was a small program (probally taking input with scanf's just to be simple) that would basically go something like this:

Enter world size (100-255 or whatever):
Enter % water for world:
Enter % of land to be jungle:
Enter % of land to be desert:
Enter % of land to be etc:
Enter number of continents:
Enter number of islands:
Maximum start locations per continent:
Maximum start locations per island:
Number of oil resources?
Number of oil resource clumps? (ie entering 3 means 3 places in the world, but there could be several close to each other)
Number of horse.. etc (for all resources: strategic, luxury)

Then maybe a few toggles for game types ala age of empires (team islands, solo islands, land base map with one large sea, one large continent in the middle with starting location islands around it, etc)

Then it'd just generate a map with those parameters and save it in bic file, if you wanted to look at it, you could load it in the editor If I did it, id also public the source with it, so if someone wanted to build a gui with sliders and check boxes and have it display a map so you can verify the results they could. That or if I end up doing it, I could make it a learning visual basic project next spring (im taking it as an elective) and actually build a gui too.

Thing is though, Im not willing to get sued over it, and I imagine they plan to revise the map generator in the game come xpack time if they add multiplayer (it'd be logical for them to do). Even if they couldnt sue me, I wouldnt want to do it if firaxis didnt want someone to do it. Who knows I may want to work for them one day ;P (not that it'd ever happen with me living in TN :P But I may submit an application after I graduate next year just for kicks :P)

	30-11-2001 11:32									#8
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it's a bad policy to force the modder to ask. It takes waayy to long. Instead, there should be posted a set of Do's and Dont's. Simple as that.

Either that, or we need to teach IG a little diplomacy. Ya know like... how to say "excuse me" or "please dont".

Using lawyers, and charging fee's without warnings.... to say that's imoral would be an understatement. That's like cops being being taught to shoot people in the legs as normal procedure for an interview... and then charging the suspect (guilt or innocent) for the cost of the bullet.

But honestly i'd say don't be worried about making mods.. if IG doesn't like it they'll let you know before slapping you with anything. and if they don't... the future of IG will follow the path of enron. Baaahhh woooooshhh....

	30-11-2001 13:09									#9
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