30-11-2001 23:25									#1
	Please stop distributing Civ3 Mods Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Infogrames has made it known and obvious that they do not approve of modifications to Civilization 3.

I suggest taking down this forum as soon as possible to avoid legal action. Just a thought!

	01-12-2001 02:14									#2
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Until either:

A) The owners of Apolyton mention something and take steps to halt this behavior, or
B) IG comes down and plunks down a C&DO on my ass,

I'm not.

	01-12-2001 02:29									#3
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huh? what did i miss? were you being sarcastic ?

	01-12-2001 06:34									#4
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Just in case you weren't being sarcastic:

Oh, for cryin' out loud!

The game ships with an editor!! Do you think they would do that if they didn't want us to make mods?!?!?!

	01-12-2001 07:19									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hmmm, even some of the people from Firaxis post here approving of some mods. If it's so wrong to make mods, those people must have been fired by now

	01-12-2001 07:26									#6
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Infogrames wants you to contact them you post modifications, not after the fact.

It is ironic that they allow customization but not modification.

Infogrames clearly must outline which is which, but until then wait for their response. Or not.

	01-12-2001 07:49									#7
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The notion of Infogames adopting an anti-modification stance after releasing the game with an editor is absurd. Moreover, that they may "prefer" that we not produce game modifications is quite irrelevant, whether their editor is used in the process or a third party utility is. Infogames lacks the legal right to intercede against anyone doing anything they wish to their copy of the game. This includes distributing game modifications to other game owners, who, possessing the same rights as the modifcation authors, are quite legally safe in choosing to apply said modifcations to their own copies of the game. While distributing copies of the game itself is illegal, distributing modifications to it is not.

That said, mod on. The modification community has improved the enjoyability of Civ3 for many.


fiveht

	01-12-2001 13:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Jodo Kast Infogrames wants you to contact them you post modifications, not after the fact. It is ironic that they allow customization but not modification. Infogrames clearly must outline which is which, but until then wait for their response. Or not.

All I see is Infogrames defending their copyright on something they were working on and planning to sell.

A fan-made German translation of the game would've hurt the localized product sales. If none had been in the works or planned, the C&DO probably would've never happened.

	01-12-2001 18:50									#9
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I just don't get it why they wouldn't want people to make mods. The possibility to make them made civ 2 so great and exactly the same will be the situation with civ3. If they really would have tried keeping the fans from making mods they could have tried encoding all the files but what would the result be? Less people buying the game because the only alternatives to the standard game rules would (possibly) be some expensive firaxian mods. I think this can't be taken too seriously.

	01-12-2001 23:58									#10
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http://www.civ3.com/devupdate.cfm

And I quote:

quote: Together we can make Civilization III a potent platform for not only exploring factual history, but also your creativity and interests.

quote: The editors are just tools, ones that the fan community needs to make meaningful by creating new scenarios with.

quote: Firaxis is very interested in Civilization III having an active mod community...

	02-12-2001 04:39									#11
	Old page Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

That's an old page that probably should be updated. As you probably see from other forums, I modify my version as well.

So what's the difference between changing the graphics for someone else and changing the text (into german) for someone else?

If I can't make modifications to the text, why are all of the files in text format. Why are ALL of the files in easy to read formats?

My point is: Firaxis hired Infogrames to take action when and if they need to. If you want permission to do something, ask them first before you distribute it (apolyton=distributor).

FORTUNATELY, Firaxis protected us - the mod community. All of the files are either TXT, FLC, or PCX. SO, if IG doesn't like this forum as I think they do NOT, it'll move to Morpheus.

Hooray.

	02-12-2001 05:27									#12
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quote: So what's the difference between changing the graphics for someone else and changing the text (into german) for someone else?

If you change the graphics, you're creating original content.

If you change the language, you're translating copyrighted content.

quote: If I can't make modifications to the text, why are all of the files in text format. Why are ALL of the files in easy to read formats?

Because there are other (legal) uses to have the files in that format: advanced scenario building being the principal one, in the sense that one could make a total conversion for a setting or scenario.

Translating a game is NOT an acceptable total conversion situation, because you're not creating anything new.

	02-12-2001 05:39									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Your wrong, the only illegal thing was what the Germans were doing.. making a german version of the game before its official release in that country, that has NOTHING to do with editing and distributing game mod add ons in countries where it already exists.

I would be interested to know if we could sell our mods to firaxis though, to be put in a expansion cd pack.

	02-12-2001 08:11									#14
	Thanks for the clarification! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thank you

	03-12-2001 08:26									#15
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In all cases in which a distributor or developer has taken action against mod-makers, it has usually involved tampering with an end-product in a way that might impinge upon prospective sales or a subscription service (a la Everquest). Infogames had already invested money in a translation project and was not about to see any potential sales jeopardized by a user-made translation. Maybe it could have brought users into the translation project, but that is doubtful since they most likely sub-contracted it to another company.

In the case of user-made mods affecting the functioning of Civ 3, I doubt Infogames would encounter any problems since mods will most likely contribute to Civ 3's shelf life. In fact, users can produce mods based upon existing franchises (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc) that neither Fireaxis nor Infogames could produce. Even officially commenting on these types of mods (which they would approve of from a business perspective) could place them in a legally dangerous position. The only mods which Fireaxis and Infogames would potentially take action against are those which could reduce sales (no cd patches) and threaten future product lines.

	04-12-2001 05:38									#16
	Re: Please stop distributing Civ3 Mods Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jodo Kast Infogrames has made it known and obvious that they do not approve of modifications to Civilization 3.

actually, they've only warned that the mods mightmake the game a little bit more unstable. Some of the features in the editor were removed for this reason, but one of the mods restated the features. firaxis warned that those features were not tested as well as the rest of the game and might therefore be unstable.

	05-12-2001 10:00									#17
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quote: Originally posted by FALVES Just in case you weren't being sarcastic: Oh, for cryin' out loud! The game ships with an editor!! Do you think they would do that if they didn't want us to make mods?!?!?!

The editor is there for those to which an official written permission will be given or to people making mod for themselves. Didn't knew that?