18-08-2000 19:40									#1
	Barbarian Threat Question Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Does anyone know why Barbarians will sometimes threaten to sack an undefended city (unless paid off) while other times they just walk right in?

	18-08-2000 19:48									#2
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I think it has to do with the level of difficulty and the amount of money you have in your treasury.

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	19-08-2000 00:10									#3
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Most of the time 50 is the minimum gold you must have, maybe slightly more - 51, 52 something like that. They demand about half of your funds up to a couple of hundred. Sometimes - though somewhat rarely they will sack it without giving a payoff option. I haven't seen that, but iirc Makeo ran into it.

	19-08-2000 01:17									#4
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SS - I think 50 gold is the magic number. They will demand 50 if you have less than 100 gold; otherwise, they demand half your gold (rounded to the nearest 25).

I've never had the barbs fail to demand tribute for a defended city in a single-player game. I have lost cities with no demands being made in multi-player mode; I suspect it's because the barbs move during their own turn in the defined sequence and can't call a time-out to hit up one of the human players for cash.

	19-08-2000 04:52									#5
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They have to get at least 50 from you.Greedy buggers.

It may be version related.In 2.42, unless I'm broke, they offer.

In MGE they sack the city.

	19-08-2000 07:11									#6
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Gold is the key. I ran a series of tests involving different numbers of cities and different amounts in the treasury and the results were pretty consistent. (Note: Tested using Fantastic Worlds and MGE at Deity.)

1) There are at least three minimum demand amounts - 50, 75, & 100 Gold. During the course of the test, the minimum started at 50, grew to 75 and ultimately reached 100 by the time the test ended. Unfortunately I have not been able to pin down what leads to this growth. It may be related to number of cities and/or Techs.

2 If your treasury has more than twice the minimum (and it doesn't matter how much more), the Barbarians will demand half. If you have an odd amount of gold, the Barbarian demand is rounded down. So if your treasury has 203 gold, they'll ask for 101.

3) If your treasury has less than the minimum (49, 74, or 99), there is no demand, just conquest.

4) Barbarians never demand tribute from a city with defenders. The "threat" will only occur after they kill the last defender and IF they have at least one unit with movement points.

5) Ever wonder why there are Barbarian Tribe Names in the City.txt file? There's no such thing as Barbarian Settlers, and if you cheat them into existence they won't found a city. I think this is the answer - it's part of the "Barbarian Threat" message. The text box reads as follows:

"The Leader of the Barbarian [Tribe Name here] has sent us a message. "We shall mercilessly sack the city of ### unless you pay us ### gold at once!""

A test involving 10 different cities generated threats from 9 different tribes. The Burgundians threatened my capital, and then it was Avars, Frisians, Vandals, Huns, etc threatening the other cities. There was no discernible pattern. First came the Burgundians (9th on the city.txt list), followed by the Avars (10th), Frisians (15th), Vandals (11th), Huns (1st), Ostrogoths (3rd), etc. The first time a city is threatened, the choice of Barbarian tribe appears to be random. However, the SAME tribe will ALWAYS threaten the same city. Thus the capital was always threatened by the Burgundians.

For most civers this is, at best, marginally interesting. On the other hand, scenario designers might find it quite useful so I'm going to "reprint" this on the Scenario League Forum.

Thanks to Hendrik, Sten, DaveV, and Smash for your insights.