01-12-2001 07:24									#1
	Gee, relocating air units is TEDIOUS. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Everyone must've had fun doing this: 30 bombers, a dozen other assorted fighters, all stacked close to the front line for bombing missions.

Then comes the time when you want to relocate them to the other side of your world.

Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ... Scroll map ... Shift+R ... click city ... map relocates ...

ARRRRRGGGHHHHHH. Didn't the play testers get bored doing this?

	01-12-2001 08:21									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

stack movemnt would be good don't 'you think

	01-12-2001 14:17									#3
	Re: Gee, relocating air units is TEDIOUS. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Kolyana Didn't the play testers get bored doing this?

Yes, that would be us.

	01-12-2001 15:01									#4
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Yeah they have to add stack movement.
Not only for air units, but also for moving large ground forces in railroads.

	01-12-2001 15:02									#5
	Remove this text

is there anything in this game NOT tedious?

	01-12-2001 15:09									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Kolyana: Why not come up with a suggestion how it could be done differently?

More important is the abilty to move around several land- or naval-units in one cluster. They dont have to fight as a whole - only move as a whole. To me this ability would be more important then the 3-4 unit army-capability, since the chance of creating a Great Leader are so extremely rare. At least for everyone that doesnt choose a militaristic Civ, and have city-conquerings as their main objective.

Last edited by Ralf on 01-12-2001 at 15:15

	01-12-2001 15:11									#7
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Daveraver is there anything in this game NOT tedious?

Yes, reading whining comments like this. Just stop play the game and do something else, if your are so totally bored.

	01-12-2001 15:28									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wish I could! But the game is still incredibly addictive. I think the CD emits cocaine or some other narcotic that keeps me playing despite bugs and tedious gameplay.

DAMN YOU FIRAXIS!

	01-12-2001 17:26									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Ralf Kolyana: Why not come up with a suggestion how it could be done differently? More important is the abilty to move around several land- or naval-units in one cluster. They dont have to fight as a whole - only move as a whole. To me this ability would be more important then the 3-4 unit army-capability, since the chance of creating a Great Leader are so extremely rare. At least for everyone that doesnt choose a militaristic Civ, and have city-conquerings as their main objective.

You're an idiot. You ask the guy how it can be done better (despite the fact that several people have already mentioned stacking) and then answer the question yourself in the second paragraph!
Relocating air units IS tedious and air stacking is just as important as it would be for naval and ground units (for the purposes of mass movement). It's as simple as having a shift-click/ctrl-click grouping command. I want to move 8 bombers to Washington? Click on top bomber, hold down shift, click on bottom bomber, all selected, shift-R and click on desired destination. Voila.
But no instead we have to click city, click unit, shift-R, scroll, click city, map resets, repeat x30. BORING. Is dinner ready yet Muriel?

	01-12-2001 17:28									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Yes, reading whining comments like this. Just stop play the game and do something else, if your are so totally bored.

Or he could just whine about the whiners like you since that's infinitely more justified, right?

	01-12-2001 18:07									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Calorman Or he could just whine about the whiners like you since that's infinitely more justified, right?

Look, we've been through this before - quit whining about whiners whining about whiners!

Anyway, everyone knows that /general is really /whiners...

	01-12-2001 19:36									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was hoping there was a stack command I hadn't seen or heard of. Just to get it straight, there isn't one yet, and they're going to make us pay for it in the expansion pack, right?

	01-12-2001 19:51									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

to the programmers out there:

do u think it's possible for the game to include groups of units?

i miss the ctp2 concept of being able to name ur army groups i.e. 1st Division etc., this personalises the gaming experience for me as i witness the rise and fall of my armies.

	01-12-2001 23:46									#14
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Kolyana: Why not come up with a suggestion how it could be done differently?

Because, quite simply, my sugegstion is exactly the same as what we have all been asking for ... stack movement. I'm not going to re-iterate what has been said a gazillion times.

quote: Yes, reading whining comments like this. Just stop play the game and do something else, if your are so totally bored.

This isn't a whine. I like the game, I've played it non-stop since buying it. I agree that it is unfinished and has a lot of tedium within, but whine about it I am not.

If you like, I'm a gamer trying to draw attention to a flaw within the game in the hope that the programmers will do something about it.

Did I say I was bored? No I did not.

In fact, you annoy me more than the game, and that's saying something

As an aside, aswell as stack movement ... which is essential ... I'd actually like to create a battle-group ... hear me out:

The other day I had 4 aircraft carriers, a handful of battleships, and surrounded them with subs and crusiers ... I thought then that it would be nice to be able to select them all and make them one unit ... not an army (can you even get this on the water?), but simply a group that moves together. A stack over several squares.

Hard to implement, we'll never see it, but I can dream.

Erm .. can't I, Ralf? No? Oh, sorry.

	01-12-2001 23:52									#15
	Suffering from ads?

Kolyana,
Zoom out first. You might also want to turn off the grid.

Other than that, be grateful that you don't have to do these major transfers that often. Actually, the tedium in transferring your air force is a substitute for having to ferry them via several cities (ferry range would be twice their mission range). Can you imagine having to do it as in Civ2???

	02-12-2001 00:04									#16
	Not that bad Get a bigger avatar today!

MOving airforces in Civ2 was worse, since the transfer rate was not infinate. In fact, if all the units are going to the same city, it's rather simple. Activate your bombers; usually the computer will activate all the air units at the same time. Scroll the map to be over the new base, and just hit Ctrl-R. The first bomber will follow the order- at this point, the new bomber is activated (just look at the mini-window) Hit the button again, and that's it, no need to scroll back to the original city at all. I have had to retransfer 30 bombers, and it was quicker than most times in civ2. There are little ways of managuing tedium that make things go alot faster.

	02-12-2001 00:36									#17
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Calorman You're an idiot. You ask the guy how it can be done better (despite the fact that several people have already mentioned stacking) and then answer the question yourself in the second paragraph!

quote: Originally posted by Kolyana Because, quite simply, my sugegstion is exactly the same as what we have all been asking for ... stack movement. I'm not going to re-iterate what has been said a gazillion times.

We are talking about two different things, Calorman (and Kolyana). Unlike Civ-2, moving around (relocating) air-units in Civ-3 is done instantly, by clicking on target city-squares. That makes a whole lot of difference. Moveable bomber/fighter-stacks would be totally pointless.

The ONLY way to speed up this instant relocation-process, is to activate, lets say 10 bombers located in 10 different cities - then having them all simultaneously beamed over to the final target city. The same thing could be done with land-units, once all your cities are railroad-connected with each other.

I think above is a brilliant idea, but it has nothing to do whatsoever with stacking units on top of each other, then moving around those stacks. The latter method is only meaningful when it comes to moving around "non-beamable" units, like naval vessels and land-units in pre-modern times, before all cities have been fully railroad-connected with each other.

So both above methods are really needed. Dont you guys agree?

	02-12-2001 11:51									#18
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don't build air units, just use modern armor to crush your enemies

	02-12-2001 17:33									#19
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Really, how many modern armors do you use to take a metropolis.

	02-12-2001 18:16									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Rust Really, how many modern armors do you use to take a metropolis.

If they all have veteran status and in full health, one can get away with 3-5 units at best - even if the city have some fortified mech.infantrys within its walls.

	02-12-2001 19:27									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

My favourite way of moving air units (and other long haul moves between cities) is Ctrl-Shift-G.

It doesn't do away with having to move each unit individually but it speeds up the process, especially when moving air or sea units across oceans, though I wish the destination city list was a little more easily navigable by keyboard.

Anyway, it beats manual relocation for me, though I do sometimes forget which city I'm heading for. :-)

Cyngorra