16-04-2002 10:49									#601
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by ~Vodka~ OK, I tryed to be reasonable. I tryed to use diplomacy but... I know why you "flame" us Beren. Its because you Germans don't have any more jews to "flame" (meaning: burn in an oven). Dolphin, you are the most arrogant son of a b*tch in this. You act like you are the smartest mother f*cker. You f*ckers wanna get in a bash war, lets go. Got beef?

First of all: I am not German.
Secondly: I don't want you all dead. I just think you have an attitude problem.
Thirdly: I think that Dolphins can be terribly smart. This dolphin you are talking about, for instance, I think it outclasses you.
Fourthly: I am sorry six million jews got murdered, but how does that help your point. I am just trying to prevent the death of too many civilian casualties in Afghanistan (a bit late) and the death of too many Palistines.
Fifthly: It seems you're the one who's more like a nazi. You immediately want to fight.
Sixthly: You prove my point, by having this attitude. You are one of many who try to turn my point in to something it's not.

	16-04-2002 10:51									#602
	Re: I REALLY hate to do this, but.... Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by lorddread Slavery is not an American invention.

Slaverly is not an European invention either.

I am sorry about the slaves my greatgreatgrandfather brought to your countries.

	16-04-2002 11:04									#603
	Re: WWII for the Record Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by lorddread Once again we need to step back and take a clean look at history.

WTF?
You are a teacher of history? I guess a teacher of an American version of history.

quote: For the Record: 1. At the start of WWII, Russia's airforce ranked BEHIND Italy. The planes were old WWI design. Stalin fired the head of aircraft design and replaced it by the 2 men who would become famous with the MIG designs.

Ranked by whom? By bullsh!ters?
I suppose you believe that USA had much more powerful and modern army then USSR before WW2?
Of course 100 000 of your troops was no match for our 3 billions, of course your 500 tanks were no match for our 24000, I don’t know how much planes you had before the war, but I wonder if more then 12 000. May be your army was equipped by planes of WW1 design; our planes were battle-tested in Spain and in Manchuria.

quote: 2. The largest tank battle was fought at Kursk.

Brilliant knowledge!
Kursk is the name for entire campaign. The battle near Prohorovka was one of the battles of this campaign. It was the largest tank battle of WW2, thousands of tanks fought against each other on one battlefield.

quote: 3. When the T-34 / 85 came into production it was the best ALLIED tank. The Tiger and Panthers were a match for it.

Are you blind? I said- “btw, T-34 is best tank of WW2 in its class”
Btw, T-34 first T-34 was built in 1939 and put in mass production in 1940.
In June 1941 we have 967 of them, it is almost twice more then entire American tank forces of that times ( in July 1940 USA had 500 tanks, most of US tanks were obsolete). We also have 12000 of T-26, 8300 of BT and few thousand tanks of other models. We also had 501 of KV-1 tanks- the most thickly armored tank of the world in those times.
Tigers and Panthers were much heavier then T-34 (and btw were put in mass production much later then T-34). It’s not right to compare T-34 and Tiger. Tigers and Panthers should be compared with other heavy tanks like JS or KV for example.

quote: 4. The IS-2 or Joseph Stalin tank was big but not the biggest of the war, that record belonged to the Mouse (100 tons) which was so big that it had to be used as a pillbox because it destroyed roads and couldn't move through fields.

I’ve never said that JS is the biggest tank. I was trying to say that we had heavy tanks like Tigers too, but tanks like KV or JS were rare and expensive (as well as their German equivalents).

quote: 5. While Gudarian may have gone to school in Russia, the tactics he used were based on General Sherman (US Civil War fame) and modified for modern armor and vehicles.

Very interesting theory, where did you get this? May be you smoked wrong stuff lately? Gudarian based his tactic on experience of almost 100 years old tactic? You should stop smoking whatever you smoke.
In Early 30s SU had the largest tank forces in the world with superior tactics. First German tanks were constructed in SU, Gudarian and other German generals studied Soviet tank tactics in Soviet military academies. Our problem was that while Gudarian returned to Germany he started to advance, to improve those tactics, while our tank’s tactics stagnated because its authors were killed during Stalin’s purges.

quote: 6. The planes and parts for much of the Russian military came from Britian and the US.

For much? For small, for tiny part of Soviet airforces.
Why you just didn't said that Soviet tank forces consisted of Shermans, Soviet Air forces consisted of Air Cobras and every Soviet soldier was equipped with Thompson-gun? BS.

quote: Also for the record, while everyone (men and women) fought in Russia, they also killed a lot of their own people. Stalin (like Hitler) got too involved in the war. Hence the debacle at Stalingrad.

Debacle at Stalingrad?
During only one such “debacle” Red army done much, much more harm to Nazi forces then Americans done during entire war. More then 1,5 billions on nazi soldiers were destroyed during only one such “debacle”.

	16-04-2002 11:23									#604
	It must be in the water Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Beren Look, I must be stupid: what terrorism does Iran support? If you are reffering to helping the Palestinines I can go for that. (What I think is, BTW, an understandable decission.) But there is no evidence at all for any other support for terror.

Pot is legal in Holland isn't it? However you are smoking crack which isn't!

"Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism in 2000. It provided increasing support to numerous terrorist groups, including the Lebanese Hizballah, HAMAS, and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), which seek to undermine the Middle East peace negotiations through the use of terrorism.

Its Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS) continued to be involved in the planning and the execution of terrorist acts and continued to support a variety of groups that use terrorism to pursue their goals.

Iran's involvement in terrorist-related activities remained focused on support for groups opposed to Israel and peace between Israel and its neighbors. Statements by Iran's leaders demonstrated Iran's unrelenting hostility to Israel. Supreme Leader Khamenei continued to refer to Israel as a "cancerous tumor" that must be removed; President Khatami, labeling Israel an "illegal entity," called for sanctions against Israel during the intifadah; and Expediency Council Secretary Rezai said, "Iran will continue its campaign against Zionism until Israel is completely eradicated." Iran has long provided Lebanese Hizballah and the Palestinian rejectionist groups--notably HAMAS, the Palestine Islamic Jihad, and Ahmad Jibril's PFLP-GC--with varying amounts of funding, safehaven, training, and weapons. This activity continued at its already high levels following the Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May and during the intifadah in the fall. Iran continued to encourage Hizballah and the Palestinian groups to coordinate their planning and to escalate their activities against Israel. Iran also provided a lower level of support--including funding, training, and logistics assistance--to extremist groups in the Gulf, Africa, Turkey, and Central Asia." (Overview of State Sponsored Terrorsism 2000)

I have to get a teachers liscence here in the states cause obviously Holland's teachers suck!

Beren, I bet you didn't know that Hezbolla and Hamas weren't created to help the Palestinians did you. Both of these have origins in the infighting between the various sects of Islam. The Palestians are just a good excuse to continue their existance.

Oh and Beren, let me further educate you in the ways of the world. Yassar, the leader of the PLO (another Iranian sponsored terror group) was offered 93% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza strip 3 years ago. To make up for the 7% that Israel wanted to control for its people, it offered 7% of its land in return. Yassar said no. He then announced to the world that he wanted ISrael to be destroyed. He is the reason the Palestinians are suffering.

Oh, and by the way Beren, how is that little thing going on in your country about your soldiers allowing genocide and mass exterminations to happen before their eyes in an UN Safe Zone?

Do we wish to discuss this?

Let me know when you wish to have another lesson in the REAL world!


KATN

	16-04-2002 12:51									#605
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by sargon2 Serb is just holding up his country and its history, and in many points I think he is right.

Thank's for support. This is exactly what I've trying to do- to defend my country and it's history.

quote: To you it is anti-american or even directly spoken terroristic, at least supporting terrorism. Let's bomb Russia for Serbs posts.

It's funny and it's sad at the same time. After the ultimatum of their president-" If you are not with us, then you are against us", after such words, they may count everyone who don't obbey to them as an enemy.

quote: After hearing all this WWII and Soviet Union ranting from Serb and other anti-U.S. B/S, I think the tide has turned in this thread. Go, USA!

siredgar,

I'm not a anti-US. ( well, may be a little)
I don't like US foreign policy, I don't like US hypocrisy and I hate when I hear- "We saved your asses", but I don't hate Americans as people.
As for original topic of this thread, It's absolutely clear for me that USA must be in the Civ3. It worth to be in, no less then any other countries, the rest of the debate is simple spam. USA is no worse then other nations, but no better, every country has glorious and shame pages of it's history. Yes, you are a little younger then others, but as you noticed in compare with ancient Egypt ot China other countries are babies too. As for culture, because you are relatively young, the culture is young too. If today in your culture we may find some things taken from other cultures, then tommorow (if not today already) it will be entierly new one.
So, USA should be in, without it game will be silly.

So, you may consider my trolling as payback to some Americans who think that Russians are evil commie- alcoholics.

	16-04-2002 18:06									#606
	Remove this text

When it comes time to pay reparations to African Americans for slavery, I think the Europeans should flip the bill. =) I don't think you'll mind since you are so much more just and generous than we are, right?

	16-04-2002 18:12									#607
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I am not european I am canadian. I also noticed no one has mentioned the USA's late entry into the war. How the US stole all the German science and tech to get to the top.

I don't mind this, I benifit from it myself living here in Canada but I what I do mind is the American aggorance showed by bush. Who is this guy? I can't believe you people elected him and follow him. He is one of the most offending people I have ever heard speak.

Every word that comes out of his mouth is offending. He has a public school playground type of attitude and the US is just eating it up. I feel terrible for all the poeple lost on Sept 11th but what I am afraid of is what is going to happen next. It was US foreign policy that caused that to happen and this foreign policy is only getting worse not better. I am not by anymeans saying these terroists are the good guys but all Bush is doing is pooring gas on a fire! What do you expect to happen?

	16-04-2002 18:27									#608
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Bush is an idiot. I apologize to the rest of the world on behalf of all Americans who feel the same way. I also agree that his rhetoric is childish and the melodramatics need to stop. Anyhow, I told you to blame those stupid and corrupt Floridians.

But the U.S. did not "steal" German science and technology. Many of the German scientists were Jewish and they were not allowed to emigrate to other European countries. Nor did they feel welcome there. The U.S. did not exactly have a red carpet out for any immigrants either because we were just coming out of the Great Depression. But we still took them in. Anyhow, they chose to come to the U.S. and helped advance our science and technology. But they are only a small part of American ingenuity in progress at the time (that continues today). Maybe if you in Europe weren't so anti-Semitic, then they would have came to you instead.

	16-04-2002 18:48									#609
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Just thought I'd throw in a few friendly comments

quote: You are a teacher of history? I guess a teacher of an American version of history.

History always depends upon perspective. You dont seem foolish enough to believe that the history of WWII written during the Stalinist and subsequent Soviet era's were free from this effect. Western histories of WWII are also biased but with a greater variety of sources it is possible to extract the "truth".

Dont forget that the chassis design for the T34 (my vote for the best tank of WWII) and subsequent Soviet tanks came from the Christie tank (designed and built in the USA) that was sold to the Soviets because the US didnt want it.

quote: Debacle at Stalingrad? During only one such “debacle” Red army done much, much more harm to Nazi forces then Americans done during entire war. More then 1,5 billions on nazi soldiers were destroyed during only one such “debacle”.

I believe debacle was used here in the description of the battles at Stalingrad from the German perspective (ie the disaster for the German forces that could have been avoided to some extent if they had been allowed to retreat).

quote: Very interesting theory, where did you get this? May be you smoked wrong stuff lately? Gudarian based his tactic on experience of almost 100 years old tactic? You should stop smoking whatever you smoke.

Sun Tsu's "Art of War" is thousands of years old and is still relevant.

quote: Gudarian and other German generals studied Soviet tank tactics in Soviet military academies

While Heinz Guderian did visit the tank training facilities in Kazan, its pretty clear that the works of Captain B.H. Liddell Hart and Major-General J.F.C. Fuller were the catalyst for Guderian's ideas on tank warfare.

quote: Thank's for support. This is exactly what I've trying to do- to defend my country and it's history.

And thats what the Americans (and myself) are doing too!

quote: It's funny and it's sad at the same time. After the ultimatum of their president-" If you are not with us, then you are against us", after such words, they may count everyone who don't obbey to them as an enemy.

They are not an ultimatum, simply a statement of our position. There are too many countries that are fence sitters. Think about this, why should America continue to support countries that are not our allies "friends"?

quote: I don't like US foreign policy, I don't like US hypocrisy and I hate when I hear- "We saved your asses", but I don't hate Americans as people.

What policies and hypocrisies would these be exactly? As for American rhetoric with respect to WWII, what about European rhetoric with respect to America in general?

quote: I'm not a anti-US. ( well, may be a little)

	16-04-2002 19:04									#610
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I will say it again I am a Canadian not a European.

Anyway the policies that surpress cultures that don't exzactly fit into the US's big scheme of things. The foreign policy that says that you are either with us or against us!

This is a very dramatic statment. I am sure many countries don't agree with what happened but at the same time do not support the States response to the situation. Does this mean they are against them?

This is the Bush administratoins way to get public opinion on thier side. Surpression can happen in many ways and believe it or not many of the american people are being surpressed and they don't even know it! All these slick media campigns and cool speaches! Its just a little bit sneaker then the old fashion way! Its not only the american people but others as well. The pathetic thing is no one can really do anything! Only the americans that is and they are all to sleepy to realize it! I take that back not all but obviously a big majority!

	16-04-2002 19:05									#611
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by CRAZY I am not european I am canadian. It was US foreign policy that caused that to happen and this foreign policy is only getting worse not better. I am not by anymeans saying these terroists are the good guys but all Bush is doing is pooring gas on a fire! What do you expect to happen?

I havent lived in Canada for about 15 years, but I am stunned by some of the anti-American comments and the lack of support for America after 9/11 that I have heard from Canadians. From what I've heard lately Canada appears to have lost the values that made it a great place to live and it is becoming a nation of bleeding heart fence sitters. I can only hope that I've been misinformed by the Canadian news that I've managed to see and by the comments made by people such as you. I know there are many other Canadians besides you on this forum, hopefully some more of them will comment.

	16-04-2002 19:07									#612
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by siredgar Bush is an idiot. I apologize to the rest of the world on behalf of all Americans who feel the same way. I also agree that his rhetoric is childish and the melodramatics need to stop. Anyhow, I told you to blame those stupid and corrupt Floridians. But the U.S. did not "steal" German science and technology. Many of the German scientists were Jewish and they were not allowed to emigrate to other European countries. Nor did they feel welcome there. The U.S. did not exactly have a red carpet out for any immigrants either because we were just coming out of the Great Depression. But we still took them in. Anyhow, they chose to come to the U.S. and helped advance our science and technology. But they are only a small part of American ingenuity in progress at the time (that continues today). Maybe if you in Europe weren't so anti-Semitic, then they would have came to you instead.

Your comments and knowledge of history speak for themselves.

	16-04-2002 19:12									#613
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I havent lived in Canada for about 15 years, but I am stunned by some of the anti-American comments and the lack of support for America after 9/11 that I have heard from Canadians. From what I've heard lately Canada appears to have lost the values that made it a great place to live and it is becoming a nation of bleeding heart fence sitters.

okay to address this!!!

I feel very very very terrible for the american people! Very terrible you have our support for the general population of the US. Many canadians also died at the WTC. But you have to look at a situation and address what has happened!!

Put it this way... you see this kid going around the school yard pushing everyone around not caring what others think, just a general bully, will you be surpriesed when some little nerd he has beat up finds some way to get back at him? Who do you feel sorry for? As a friend to the bully you feel empatetic toward his pain but you also might remind him it was his attitude in the first place that brought it on himself and if he didnt' want it to happen again he should change, altho if it does happen again as a friend you will be there to help him.

I am sure you have been in a similar life situation!! Support from your parents is unconditional but don't be surpriesed when they let you know when you are being an ass!!

	16-04-2002 19:18									#614
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by CRAZY Put it this way... you see this kid going around the school yard pushing everyone around not caring what others think, just a general bully, will you be surpriesed when some little nerd he has beat up finds some way to get back at him? Who do you feel sorry for?

There has been a lack of coherent policies with respect to the Middle East (and other countries) over several decades but just who is it America is pushing around?

	16-04-2002 20:03									#615
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

dude I am not sure about you!! are you trying to argue for the sake of arguing? You admit that the policies are bad but then you ask who it is that you are pushing around? I am not here to answer things you already know just for the sake of arguing!!

If you truly do not know then I will say its is pretty much most of the world that the US is pushing around! Yes even us here in Canada. All I have to say is softwood! Ask the rest of the world about steel and then ask those in the middle east about the american policies there!!!

Biggest promoters of free trade yet smacking down tarrifs and taxes when it starts to affect them in a bad way. Its a 1 way street when dealing with the US. Everyone is starting to realize this and are getting very angry. Hence all the anti americanism around the world, even within ally countries such as here in Canada.

As far any other questions you have I am here to talk and pass information. If you bring a good point I will accept it, I change my mind in the light of information. but I am not here to answer questions just for the sake of arguing!! its stupid. In fact I am not here to argue at all! If you realize something don't make people spell it out for you anyway. Its a waste of everyones time!

	16-04-2002 20:46									#616
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

No I'm not arguing for its own sake. I'm trying to understand your extremist (from my perspective) viewpoint. Coherent political policies have nothing to do with pushing people around!

Coherent policies refers to concepts such as, how can America best support Israel's right to exist while having to deal with anti-israeli sentiment amongst the Arabic (Moslem) countries who supply much of our oil?

Pushing people around is another matter. American intervention in Bosnia might be considered to be "pushing people around" but since neither Europe nor Canada was prepared to do anything but talk, America acted.

What I'm asking you for is specific examples of what you are refering to? Steel! What about it? The steel industry in the USA has virtually disappeared compared to what it used to be because of price undercutting by the Japanese first and then the Koreans ("friends" who exist today because of American military support). Just who are the Americans pushing around in the middle east? The Kuwaitis who recently voted to not support action against Iraq????? The Israeli's who continue there offensive despite American protest? The Palestinians who continue with terrorist acts??

I havent kept track of the "softwood" problem you refer to. Its probably similar to, or a continuation of, the conflicts between the west coast logging industries that have been going on for (at least) 30 years. The Americans claim that the Canadian goverment unfairly supports the logging industry and therefore imposes tariffs on Canadian lumber products. Well maybe they do and maybe they dont. Instead of whining about it, maybe Canadians should stop buying orange juice from Florida. Buy it from Brazil instead! That action was threatened by the Canadian Govt. 30 years ago over the cedar shake and shingle industry but never happened. If you want to effect American actions you've got to hit them in the pocket book. Canadians buy a lot of orange juice (for example) but never had the guts to stand up to what was bad policy by the American Govt.

There are similar arguments for American tariffs on other products from around the world. I find that some have merit and some dont. I dont see such actions by the American Govt as "pushing people around" however.

	16-04-2002 22:47									#617
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by CRAZY Put it this way... you see this kid going around the school yard pushing everyone around not caring what others think, just a general bully, will you be surpriesed when some little nerd he has beat up finds some way to get back at him?

The US for decades has asked permission to act in its own best interest. DO you know where this has gotten us? We are viewed as weak, lacking the will to act on our own.

quote: Who do you feel sorry for? As a friend to the bully you feel empatetic toward his pain but you also might remind him it was his attitude in the first place that brought it on himself and if he didnt' want it to happen again he should change, altho if it does happen again as a friend you will be there to help him.

For once we don't want or need the rest of the worlds help. For the past 34 years, the world has lived with terrorism. Europeans know what it is like to be afraid to go to an airport, bank, movie theater etc. But what did you do about it? Did you root out the terrorists? Did you tell the countries that supported the terrorists, we aren't going to take it anymore, and if you do it again we will do this, this and this? No you complained, whined, and arrested a few individuals.

Now we have 15000 terrorists running around the world in 63 nations. The US has removed a terrorist regime without killing a whole lot of civilians and is in the process of removing the largest poppy field in the world (which is turned into opium and sold in Europe (US opium comes from South America)). We are actively rooting out terrorists in other countries.

But what is Europe doing? Wringing their hand, blaming us for acting unilaterally. We lost 2855 people in the largest terrorist act in world history. I think it is about time we acted unilaterally.

No Europe doesn't want us to go after Saddam. Why should they. Their companies have sold Saddam 1.5Billion US dollars worth of equipment used to make nuclear, chemical, and bio weapons. The chemical weapons were not only used against the Iranians, but against his own people.

quote: I am sure you have been in a similar life situation!! Support from your parents is unconditional but don't be surpriesed when they let you know when you are being an ass!!

I got news for you, if the US is a child, we have long since grown up and moved out. I have said it before and I will say it again, "If our bombs aren't falling on your neighborhood, you have got nothing to complain about!"

KATN

	16-04-2002 22:53									#618
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Hey, I know about the fact, that some of the german generals were in soviet schools. We've been allies before Hitler betrayed you.

A brief History Lesson

Germany was forced into war with Russia for its very survival. As soon as Stalin signed the NonAgression Pact with Germany, he Informed his generals that they had 1 year to gear up for war. Stalin used the treaty as a way to stay out of the war until he had the forces to attack Germany.


Thus endith the lesson


KATN

	16-04-2002 23:19									#619
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by lorddread A brief History Lesson Germany was forced into war with Russia for its very survival. As soon as Stalin signed the NonAgression Pact with Germany, he Informed his generals that they had 1 year to gear up for war. Stalin used the treaty as a way to stay out of the war until he had the forces to attack Germany. Thus endith the lesson KATN

Although I agree with your other posts, this one I can't exactly say is true. Hitler was actually one of the few people Stalin could trust... and when German soldier's betrayed their nation and warned Stalin of the approaching attack, what did Stalin do? He executed them for trying to incite a revolt.


Anyways, about some of the *****ing about slavery above. Why is it that we are constantly *****ed at for the atrocities committed on the Native Americans, when places like England have had more recent ones (Less than 30 years ago the slaughter of 700 South African school children and wounding more thousands more), and yet I NEVER hear them being brought up.

Every time I visit a Canadian board there are always at least 3 anti-American replies per posts (and often a topic focused on bashing America). Canada, a country with an economy worse than Mexico's, and a military consisting of pad-wearing stick wielders (what we here in a America call a "hockey team"), constantly bragging about their once in half a century gold medal victory, can pretty much be summed up in this article, based on some crappy anti-American Canadian TV show...

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cra...ssay_three.html

For a country that is ranked "Number 1 place to live in" by the United Nations, alot of your fresh graduates sure enjoy working and living in America.

Europe, on the other hand, is just packed full of hypocrites and whiners. They exaggerate collateral damage, blame their mistakes on us, and frequently bash American polictics when they can't even keep their politics in a straight line.

By the way, in reference to the above last line, I noticed a majority of the anti-American posters here are from Netherlands. Must be hard to bash us now since your government is going down faster than a house of cards in a hurricane (<---A smile just like at the end of all your anti-America posts)

	16-04-2002 23:25									#620
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quote: a country with an economy worse than Mexico's

Where do you get your facts? Canada's economy outperformed the US economey for the last year. Actually I do not have the numbers here right now but I would be happy to show them to you!!


Canada unlike the US did not really go into a recession. Canada actually created more jobs in the last quarter then the US. We have an 8th of the population by the way, and still created more jobs.

You said it right pal canada is the number 1 place to live. Imagine that from a place with an economy like Mexico! How much is your health insurance there? what about all the homless?

great ole capitalism aye? there is a reason for all the american bashing. Its not so much the people but the government. Everyone is wrong and of course you are right!!

Keep believeing it. Makes you people feel good about yourselves and that is the main thing!!

	16-04-2002 23:40									#621
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by CRAZY You said it right pal canada is the number 1 place to live.

Not from where I sit.

I went up to sunny Toronto for a job interview last November. I told myself I would consider it for min 100K US. As it turned out it wasnt even 100K cdn. I just about laughed in their faces. What a joke!

	16-04-2002 23:47									#622
	Inflate your Upload Space

I know it maybe a little hard to figer out but hey!! Even some people from Canada go to the states. You can go to the US and make more money but in doing that you throw away some benifits that the US just can't provide. The US has high crime rate, no health care, bad air quality, and a huge gap between upper middle and lower class people.

In canada we have a bit more compassion for one another and look after one another a bit more then those to the south. We don't so much view the all mighty dollar as an end but a means to an end where as in the US its a bit different.

Altho if some powers that be had thier way we would be more like you guys. So I guess its all what you are looking for in life. Aside from $ the overall quality of life for canadians is higher then that in the US. That is the story!

Btw by no means is it hard to make a decent living here in Canada. There is just less extreme's is all.

	17-04-2002 01:49									#623
	Oh Canada! Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by CRAZY Canada unlike the US did not really go into a recession. Canada actually created more jobs in the last quarter then the US. We have an 8th of the population by the way, and still created more jobs.

AND?

quote: You said it right pal canada is the number 1 place to live. Imagine that from a place with an economy like Mexico! How much is your health insurance there? what about all the homless?

How much do you pay in taxes to live in a socialist state? Because that is what the government of Canada is, a democratically elected socialist state just like Norway.

Hey if it works, go with it. But let me ask you this.... Where do the best doctors in the world train? Where do the best engineers work? The best computer programmers? The most millionares, and billionares? Where are the majority of the Fortune 500, 100 or 50 companies headquatered?


NOT CANADA!


PS: I like Canada, Toronto is one of my favorite cities in the world.


KATN

	17-04-2002 02:08									#624
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Look, it comes to this: Americans, like those of us who have posted in this thread, are sick and tired of EVERY SINGLE THING our country does being criticized, exaggerated and whined about by everyone else, while hardly anyone ever mentions 1) something we've done that was good; or 2) the fact that their country hasn't acted like a saint either.

If it was a computer program, it would look like this:

(if) USA (action) or (statement) then (complain)

Of course our country screws up sometimes. Every country makes mistakes. We're a large, powerful country, so our mistakes loom larger than most. But when someone compares the 9/11 terror attacks to a nerd fighting back against a bully in a playground, well, some of us take offense.

Serb I can at least understand. He loves his country, and he feels its history has been unfairly treated by Westerners. I think he exaggerates Russia's achievements, but I at least understand his motivation. Besides, there are a lot of annoying USA#1 people around, so I can't really begrudge one Russian.

I don't mind constructive criticism, so long as it's from someone who is at least trying to be impartial. But ranting and raving about how all things American are bad is neither constructive, nor objective. Further, there is an expression about not throwing stones if you live in a glass house...

To those who operate based upon my "computer program" example above, screw you.

-Arrian

	17-04-2002 02:31									#625
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Sensationalism sells newspapers and similarly bashing America gets responses. If it didn't get a response people wouldn't do it - its an easy target. People could easily bash France, Germany, Britain, Japan, etc but they're not as "important", won't get the same size of reaction, and wouldn't stay on page 1 very long*. Accept that it happens because the US is #1.

This is not to detract from the fact that bashing for bashings sake is wrong. (I've seen forums that are very America-dominant and bash Europe more badly, ignorantly and stupidly than the reverse state on this site (check Newsmax). I understand the frustation American posters must feel.) I only ask that you understand that not all anti-American sentiment is based on the fact that bashing America is somehow fun, just that it is the subject that is most heated and hence discussed.

*I remember someone started a thread in the OT titled "Why Burkino Faso is the crappest nation on Earth!". It got about two replies and just fell to page 10 with a couple of days. It was a parody of the "Why the US is the crappiest nation on Earth!" which was about as long and heated as this one. I think it illustrates a point.

	17-04-2002 02:59									#626
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Your comments and knowledge of history speak for themselves.

And what exactly do you mean by that?

	17-04-2002 03:27									#627
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Coherent policies refers to concepts such as, how can America best support Israel's right to exist while having to deal with anti-israeli sentiment amongst the Arabic (Moslem) countries who supply much of our oil?

The Middle East supplies only about 10-15% of oil used in the U.S. About half of the oil we use comes from domestic sources, mainly Texas and Alaska. The rest is imported, primarily from Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, and yes, Canada.

On the other hand, our partners in Western Europe, Japan, and South Korea rely heavily on Middle East oil. About 30% of Western European oil imports come from the region. Even worse, Japan imports 97% of its oil needs, 80-90% of which comes from the Middle East. South Korea has similar statistics, too.

The reason why the U.S. is so interested in keeping the flow of Middle East oil steady is not so much for our own oil needs, but to help our allies. Also, like all commodities, oil has a single global price. If the oil supply to Europe, Japan, and South Korea was anyhow negatively affected, the price of oil would go up EVERYWHERE, including the U.S.

So, the Middle does not "supply much of our oil needs", but rather plays a critical factor in oil supplies to our allies and the overall global market.

	17-04-2002 03:32									#628
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quote: Originally posted by CRAZY I know it maybe a little hard to figer out but hey!! Even some people from Canada go to the states. You can go to the US and make more money but in doing that you throw away some benifits that the US just can't provide. The US has high crime rate, no health care, bad air quality, and a huge gap between upper middle and lower class people. In canada we have a bit more compassion for one another and look after one another a bit more then those to the south. We don't so much view the all mighty dollar as an end but a means to an end where as in the US its a bit different. Altho if some powers that be had thier way we would be more like you guys. So I guess its all what you are looking for in life. Aside from $ the overall quality of life for canadians is higher then that in the US. That is the story! Btw by no means is it hard to make a decent living here in Canada. There is just less extreme's is all.

But Canada is boring.

=)

Then again maybe that's why it's so boring.

=)

Toronto is the most boring place on Earth I've ever been to.

=P

	17-04-2002 05:00									#629
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar The Middle East supplies only about 10-15% of oil used in the U.S. So, the Middle does not "supply much of our oil needs", but rather plays a critical factor in oil supplies to our allies and the overall global market.

I stand corrected on the oil import issue.

I was, however, simply trying to illustrate that the lack of a coherent American policy towards the middle east is not the same thing as America "pushing people around".

	17-04-2002 05:29									#630
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quote: Originally posted by lorddread Where do the best doctors in the world train?

Australia.

quote: Where do the best engineers work?

Everywhere in the world (they're Dutch).

quote: The best computer programmers?

That would be The Netherlands, too.

quote: The most millionares, and billionares?

On top of the most poor people of the western world.

quote: Where are the majority of the Fortune 500, 100 or 50 companies headquatered?

Next to the slums.