02-12-2001 04:25									#1
	Sub Opinions: Any Bubbleheads out there? Tired of ads?

The conventional sub and the nuke sub both have the same stats. It's my opinion that the Nuke should move at 4 instead of 3 or am I incorrect. I could have sworn that I heard while watching a doc about subs that modern subs can move as fast as surface warships.

On the same subject: I think subs should have a first strike option. If this strike is successful, the defending ship is sunk or heavily damaged.

	02-12-2001 04:33									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'd agree with you.

Say the Submarine is a WW2-era U-Boat (or US Fleet boat), and the Nuclear Submarine is (because of its ability to carry nukes), a US 688I Improved Los Angeles class boat.

The 688I CAN hit sustained speeds of 30+ knots (of course, not the best idea because it's easier to hear at that speed) submerged.

The US Fleet boat, on the other hand, can hit a max of 20 knots on the surface, 9 knots submerged (and have to come up to recharge the batteries pretty often at that speed).

Since Civ3 IS heavily abstracted, real world comparisons are bound to fail. I'm just spouting a bunch of info.

	02-12-2001 05:12									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Funny thing is i just was reading the Civlopedia entry for the Nuke sub and it even says there that it's supposed to be faster, but the stats don't refelect this.

	02-12-2001 05:48									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, the Nuke should be better. I think there have been lengthy discussions about this in the /creation forum. There's a few rebalanced mods about already.

	02-12-2001 06:37									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by The Rook Funny thing is i just was reading the Civlopedia entry for the Nuke sub and it even says there that it's supposed to be faster, but the stats don't refelect this.

hmm your kidding? i swear it must be the millionth time I read that already Load up the editor and add a movement point

Kind of terrible though that even in the civilopedia says it's faster. If firaxis forgets to fix this, well then someone is probably really dense over there

	02-12-2001 13:29									#6
	Put an end to popups!

the 688I Improved Los Angeles is an attack sub that is capable of launching cruise missiles with its VLS system. No nuclear tipped cruise missiles were ever carried as far as I know.

	02-12-2001 13:42									#7
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yep

it is obvious firaxis knows nothing about naval warfare. But maybe they are the smart ones. Maybe the mayflower can defeat the USS Iowa?

Would be nice if we had attack subs and ballistic subs. There is a very important difference in the mission of the 2 types of subs. But that would complicate things with more units, so they tried to combine. If they were going to include the sub (absent from civ2), they should have done it right. The sub should have the same movement of surface ships such as AEGIS cruisers. although a nifty option would be if the human or ai player uses more than 3/4 of the subs movement points the sub is 'detected'.

	02-12-2001 17:31									#8
	Got spare money?

quote: it is obvious firaxis knows nothing about naval warfare.

Or that you know nothing about writing complex software. Maybe a tweak here might affect an event yonder, eh?