02-12-2001 04:31									#1
	hut pattern Tired of ads?

Wow. Input into this particular forum seems to have pretty much disappeared. I guess that answers the earlier question about who will buy Civ 3 -- just about everybody. But I for one expect to wait for a multiplayer version, and in the meantime, I've been doing a little Civ2 research for those who are still paying attention.

Anyone paying attention has no doubt noticed that huts appear in a four-corner pattern like that of special resources. But they may also have found that it's not a straightforward thing to figure out where those four-corner groups will appear. When I've asked here for a way to predict where they'll be, I've been told that if you look at a whole map, there's an obvious pattern that will let you predict the exact location of every hut if you know where just a few of them are. When I tried that, the large-scale pattern of four-groups was not at all obvious to me. But recently I generated a few maps and think I've determined that full pattern. No doubt many of you have already figured this out, but I haven't seen it detailed anywhere, and I wonder if most people have underestimated the complexity of it. I'd like to give a simple visual of it, but I'm not sure how to. I guess I could create an all-land map and place something on it to show the hut pattern; if people are interested, let me know. Meanwhile, I'll describe it.

Every hut is part of a standard four-corner group. The groups do not intersect, as the specials groups do. They form dyads, where two adjacent groups are "connected" at either one or two corners by a three-spaces-directly-east-west relationship (either upper-right-corner-to-lower-left-corner, or both-right-corners-to-both-left-corners). All of the dyads in a given horizontal band are the same form -- all of them one-corner attachment, or all of them two-corner attachment. These dyads form a continuous pattern that angles up-down-up-down-up-down as you move horizontally across the map, making sort of an extended "w" shape if you were to connect their centers with lines. One "w" zone is about 7 squares tall; by diagonal map-square numbering, it's a range of 13, so it covers about 1/6 of a standard-sized world map.

Above and below each horizontal "w" band is a band two squares tall (four by map-square numbering) with no huts.

Above and below each empty band is another "w" band. These bands alternate, from north to south, between the one-corner-contact and both-corners-contact arrangements. These bands are not aligned directly above one another. As you move from north to south, the higher-placed group in each dyad is related to the higher-placed group in the dyad most nearly straight south of it in the next lower band, by one of two relationships: (1) the southern group is numbered (-1,+17) compared to the northern group, or (2) the southern group is numbered (-7,+15) compared to the northern group. Since the connection-types alternate between "w" bands, so does this relationship; if the higher-placed groups in two bands have a (-1,+17) relationship, then the lower-placed groups have a (-7,+15) relationship, and vice versa.

This constitutes the full pattern: four-group "squares" in two different types of dyads, forming "w" bands of two alternating types, with the "sine curves" of the "w" bands being slightly out of synch in an alternating consistent way.

Thus, indeed, it is only necessary to locate some fairly modest number of huts in order to calculate the exact locations of every hut point on the map. In fact, I think it may sometimes be possible with just two huts in two different four-groups, if you've got the full pattern mapped out and you're willing to look on your model map and find two points on it that bear the same relationship as the two huts. I think it may always be possible with just three huts in one group and two in another. However, it's not really very easy to do in practice. Water causes holes in the pattern, and there's enough repetition so that it's fairly tough to be sure which part of the overall pattern a single group represents.

So... there we go. My small contribution to Civ2 arcana, just in time for Civ3.

	02-12-2001 04:49									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

wow you did some extenciv e research.

Maybe this info could help us/you determine how the random generator in civ 2 works,since all resources and huts seem to be saved in the same single variable.(ie bad generator )

Shade
Heil to the almighty civ2,and curs all whom are disloyal

Last edited by shade on 02-12-2001 at 05:20

	03-12-2001 08:19									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'll bet a $ there's a simple math formula behind it. Use the map editor, and tell me how many different resource seeds there are. The quick answer is 32568 or some such ridiculously high number. But they repeat every 64. In other words, seed 1 will appear again at 65 and 129 and so on.

Where F=fish and W=whale, seed one follows debeest's w pattern. Each successive seed repeats the pattern, but begins scooted down one tile to the right. At the bottom of the 8 square tall w, the pattern returns to the top, but with a
..F.. . . . . . . . . . . ..W..
F...F becoming a F... F
..F.. . . . . . . . . . . ...F..
Then a second whale is added at the right. Then the 2fish/2whale alternates thru a sequence of combinations. Then a third whale. Then a fourth, and back to the beginning. 8 sets of fish/whale combos at 8 start tiles along the w = 64 patterns.

	03-12-2001 08:23									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Oh, and by the way, the huts always appear as debeest describes - 2 tiles away from a special.

Also, the illusion of some specials being 3 out of the 4 possible is just the right or leftmost one being cut off due to the position it is "slid" along the w. Each slide only extends to the right and left as far as that leg of the w goes.

	09-12-2001 05:06									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

I had hoped that an all-grass-land map would make the relationships between hut positions more graphically, intuitively clear. But here is one, attached if I am successful, and I find that it actually shows the relationships much less clearly than the one that I had drawn out on paper as I studied this. Still, it gives you something to compare my complicated word description to. For the best view, use the lowest zoom setting that still shows huts. Note that although this has a .sav extension for purposes of Apolyton mailing validity, it's actually a map editor map; I think you'll need to rename it *.mp and look at it with the map editor.

	09-12-2001 05:17									#6
	Support Apolyton

Let's try that attachment again.

Attachment: \hutmap.sav
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

	14-12-2001 19:00									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

When I download this file I get the message "which programme". I chose civ2, but it won't work..What am I doing wrong?

Deebest, could you post a pic of the hut pattern in this thread?

	15-12-2001 04:15									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As I said above, it's a map-editor map, but in order to attach it for mailing to Apolyton I renamed it as a .sav file. You need to rename it with a .mp ending (probably have to save it to disk rather than opening it immediately) and use the Civ map editor, not the Civ game program, to open it. If I was more computer-savvy, I'd probably have been able to attach something more efficient. Likewise, if I were more savvy, I'd probably be able to attach a nice graphic version of it, but I don't know how. Sorry.

	24-12-2001 15:58									#9
	Remove this text

I have not given up on CivII I am downloading your map edit right now thanks Do you know of any one working on a new scenario for Civ II