03-12-2001 05:02									#1
	Anyone else play small map w/ 16 civs? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah I just started a game on a small map with 16 civs, IT'S FREAKIN' GREAT!!! Most civs so far (I've encountered 5 or so) only have three or four cities, so each city is very important. The smaller scale of the game seems to be more fitting to the types of games I play...

	03-12-2001 05:28									#2
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I might give it a try someday. But I am a huge map type of guy (must be compensating for something... ).

	03-12-2001 07:35									#3
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I think maybe someday soon, I'll make up a map designed for 16 civs, you know, make sure everyone at least has an opportunity at the resources, good city locations, and what not.

I like small maps, only because I can't afford to play for 8 hrs/ day.

	03-12-2001 08:28									#4
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How precisely do you alter the rules to allow for 16 civs on a small map? I havn't had much luck with the editor since I am a complete neophyte in this field.

	03-12-2001 10:03									#5
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You edit the number of civs on the Map Sizes tab in the editor.

I've played a few games like that. It makes for a very fast and cutthroat game.

	03-12-2001 10:08									#6
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Hey this sounds like it might be a game with some real potential. The small size makes the mass tedium probably less of an issue. I may have to crank up a session of that and see how it goes!

Venger

	03-12-2001 10:24									#7
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Oh, a SMALL map. I was thinking of Tiny. I haven't done any Small with 16 civs, but I've done Tiny.

	03-12-2001 13:06									#8
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Well, it appears as if a "scenario map" might have to be made. After setting up a small map w/ 16 civs [can do in editor], I opened it up as a scenario, and even after selecting "random" for all 16 of them, only 8 appeared on the map.

First of all, 8 IS better than 6 (I think?) you were allowed with on a small map before.
Secondly, I think it's only 'cause the game could only find 8 "suitable" positions...

So, I'm gonna try my Civ2 mapmaking skills on this strange funky world of Civ3...

Ok, here's what I'm thinkin', and any small (regular?) map players can give some ideas...

1) Set up islands in a way as to give each civ at least 3 good city positions.
2) Connect many of these islands with strategic strips of land (think Panama Canal).
3) Place resources in such a way as to force players to "stretch" for them. Colonies will HAVE to be used until culture kicks in.
4) If I can, I'd like to go ahead and place some fortresses, but I'll have to see.

I plan to have downloadable version by Tuesday, and all comments and advice are welcome.

Mark: this might serve better in the "Creation" forum...

	03-12-2001 14:32									#9
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I wonder why you had problems getting it to put 16 civs on - did you change the original civ3mod.bic file? I've modified mine to allow 16 civs on all map sizes, and it has no trouble finding room for them, as it doesn't really care how far apart they are - on a Tiny map with 16 civs, you will see the borders of at least one other civilization as soon as you hit B on the first turn.

	03-12-2001 23:06									#10
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No I just created a random map in the editor and put the settings to 16 civs... How does one change the civ3mod.bic file as you say?

	03-12-2001 23:25									#11
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I am almost finished with a small map 12 civ battle.
VERY INTERESTING!

I did everything random (age, other civs, continent type).
I ended up with a great big upside down U continent with little islands around. The beginning of the game was pretty intense, everyone jockeying for position, and we all had about 5 or 6 cities. Very interesting. Not too long and china declared war on me. Well, I got my buddies Rome, and Japan to gang up on China, China got the Aztecs and the Persians to gang up on Japan, and we had WWI started about 400 A.D. I soon decided to punish my neighbor America for letting China pass through their lands to attack me, and with the help of Rome, I gained 6 more cities and a lot of land and resources.

Now, everything kinda settled down, but then everyone picked on Japan and since I decided this would be a good time to pick up some more cities, I attacked Persia with the help of Rome and Zululand and I got 2 more cities. Persia and Japan were knocked out and WWII was over.

I now had the most land and the highest culture and a feared military. As soon as I was able to build tanks, I decided to take out my neighbor to the south, and Rome became no more, then next on the list was Egypt and China fell soon after.

So now, its 2001, I have half of the U and no islands and there are 5 other civs left. Still a very exciting game.

One problem though, this game is very technologically behind my other games. Generally by 2000, I'm almost done building spaceship parts, but I just barely built Apollo in this game.

I wonder if all the wars meant everyone has spent less on research. (I am in the tech lead BTW).

	04-12-2001 03:44									#12
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I've noticed that, too... Maybe I'll have to adjust the tech rate... Otherwise, the map itself should [hopefully] be done tonight, though I must admit the Civ3 map editor leaves things to be desired... I'll have to playtest it as well...

	05-12-2001 08:49									#13
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How are the between turn rates compared to 8 civs on a normal map?

	05-12-2001 09:56									#14
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I used to play max civs in multiplayer, at Age of Kings and Age of Empires (when I stil played RTS). Fun

	05-12-2001 10:20									#15
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Ok my comments on playing 16 civs on a small map...

1) The AI doesn't do it's "settler-settler-settler-settler" thing. In fact, many small chunks of unclaimed land are STILL unclaimed, granted that they are too small for a real city, the AI understands that it's not really habitable...
2) I have had to start almost all of the wars so far... Though it was fun to get the French on my side for all of them .
3) I have an empire with 8 cities and I'm currently just a hair in the lead. While I have no doubt I'll win this game, the much reduced micromanagement of an empire this size keeps the game movin nicely...
4) Tech rate is a bit behind, though all civs (even the smaller ones) seem to remain competitive.
5) The whole world (land wise) was exposed to my map by 0 AD.

Overall, I'd highly recomend it. Sure, most of the other civs are just "other civs," but I have a feeling that it will be much fun to see which ones get picked off...

	05-12-2001 10:22									#16
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Turn wise, it moves fine, and though I'm still only in the middle ages, there's not much room for more cities, etc... I have a hunch turn times won't be a problem (and I have a PII 333).